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| Author | Interesting faction statistics |
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Regarding the gain in experience for elfs its in fact vice-versa. They gain less XP most games than other players. Check combat logs of at least 20 combats with elfs and you will learn: Elfs get shot first, so they do less DPS, so they gain less XP. Its easy like that. Do your homework, before stating such nonsense. In addition, elfs have the most need of artifacts elated to other players. Why? Only to have some bowmen left after the first round. You have no idea how it is to always be first target, its frustrating.
Some Samples:
http://www.heroeswm.com/warlog.php?warid=468872723 (900 XP behind Wizard, 1300 XP behind Barbarian)
http://www.heroeswm.com/warlog.php?warid=468775124 (600 XP behind Knight)
@Kotrin: Lol, look at you - only because I am elf my opinion isnt worth a while or what? So you made up this post to silence us elf players? There are a lot of players saying "Hey Gay Elf" to me or other fellow elf players. This is because of your ridicolous anti-elf-threads. When I chose my first race in this game, I didnt loot the forums for informations on best races, its cause I always liked them. This is what 99% of new players do. Your statistic (source?) just shows off, that most of the elfs know how to play their race. In addition to that, elfs are superiour in duels because of their ranged abilities, which effects the statistic result.
@Specter: Check Wiki, check russian homm4 mods/addons, check history. The developers have done a great job with this browser game, but the unit properties are still carried over from homm. Btw: I dont like it how you show something off here (Bla bla I earn big, I own big, I know all, Bla bla). And I dont like that you call names (like mine) and just counter, instead of bringing more info and value to the discussion, you just repeated my stuff. | | helbarus, go to .ru atfirst, to say such stupid things =). When once a monce admins make some changes in recruiting army, or unit abilities and balance changes rapidly. balance in this game have no any relation to Heroes series, even to 5th. mane part of elf power take druids, separeted on 1-in-stack. damage 20 is too much! For me (demon) elfes vere favorite meat on 3-4 lvls, now I cant kill him in duel, even dont have a chance! I die in 2 turns, even gating have no sens. | Elfs get shot first, so they do less DPS, so they gain less XP.
exp in groups is given in equvalent to killed units; in 1 turn elves do the most damage of all clases, thats why he dies first, but that does not mean that elv get less exp than other
When I chose my first race in this game, I didnt loot the forums for informations on best races, its cause I always liked them. This is what 99% of new players do.
29. Rina [6] 05-01-08 17:18: Registered. Faction: Necromancer.
Justix 05-05-08 12:46: Registered. Faction: Demon.
LEw Registered. Faction: Knight.
Thats just few examples of elfes from top100. 30% of higher elves started the game with other classes and then chanhed to elves | | if u, being elf, dont understand that your class is strongest, learn to play or buy a new brain. | | @Hellraiser: Sure, I quickly learn russian language, go to .ru and inform myself to the latest developements. No problem. I get back to you in - lets say - 2 years, ok? Perhaps you do us a favour and prove what you are saying. Translate some stuff for the community here, will you? Even the lack of source of most anti-elf-statistics doesnt help here either. And sure, balance is related to the amount of units you may recruit from castle, thats totally different to the original heroes series. I didnt compare that. Maybe you are just another elf-hater running around? Of course they own in duels, like I said, they have superiour ranged abilities. Thats why duels with elfs arnt worth it. Look at my combat log, I never play duels, its boring. | 24
Ok thats it, Hellraiser. There is absolute NO NEED to insult other players. You won, I will skip this discussion. | for Halbarus:
duels shows balance. its the same as 3 elf vs 3 wizards, but much faster. I dont hate elfes and i dont usk to cut and week them, I just dont see any chance in plauing against elf, its unfair, isnt it? I'l tell u a little secret, last news on .ru. soon we'l get perks | for Halbarus:
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sorry for that | | Well I did not read all of these posts but have read enough to hear that a lot of people are complaining about the elf faction. To tell you the truth, when I started this game, I already wanted to be an elf without knowing anything about this game. If you look at my profile, I have never changed factions so I find it hard to relate to your problems...but...I do love being an elf, even tho it is not that easy to lvl up because I get a lot of afk partners when I do group battles...and I like group battles more than pvp | | thx Halbarus...I feel the same way as you...but I don't get called names tho lol but I did love the elves that's way i chose them | halbarus,
the source of the info isnt important, unless u think he made up all those numbers? which would be. bizarre. simply trust that it is correct, cus even without knowledge of the guy, it seems very unlikely he would make it up, especially as the numbers are similar to the results i would intuitively expect.
i didnt say i was rich, or "own big". i am neither. but i have grown up from the days of playing computer games all the time, which was my point. this game has piqued my interest for now, and that is due to my love of the original game - imbalances will of course detract from the interest, and not just for me, i wager. if the knowledge that i have got somewhere in the working world adds brevity to my words, then that is a happy aside.
yeah, i read your post, and countered your points, that is generally how discussions go. one doesnt need to bring new info to each post, if the original info is still unrebutted, as it is in this instance.
your "facts" about elves earning the least EXP due to them being killed first is... well... crazy. if this were the case, why would they be so over represented in the top 100 players, above and beyond the % distribution of races in the game? it is ipso-facto logic that they infact earn EXP quickest of all (over the levels we are currently talking about) - with a sample size as big as the playerbase of this game, it is very poor logic to believe that elf players simply "know how to play better" and thus overcome their "lower EXP gain rate" to reach the top in such a high proportion. you sighting 2 battles to overcome the 1000s of battles which the original statistics were based on is again, not good statistical practice, and that you originally told me to do my research before posting, really outlines the shortcomings of your argument.
to all else, please do not resort to name calling, that is the death of any good debate. | | [Post deleted by moderator Arctic // Offensive and irrelevant] | Halbarus, even if you die first and get the least amount of exp on your team, the argument here is that Elves win the most often. I'd take 3rd in exp every time if I was guaranteed to win more often.
3rd on winning team exp >>>>>>>> 1st on losing team exp | as for bringing something new to this discussion...
http://www.heroeswm.com/warlog.php?lt=-1&warid=927264
if you can show me ANY player ever beating this combat (or a similar one), at any level below 10, with ANY amount of cool artifacts (Which i admit, cep DID need to win here), that ISNT an elf, i would be amazed.
indeed. go check out CMEPTb's army at level 8. then try to somehow conceive a possible way he could EVER hope to compete with this army of elves.
then go back to check cepionis' battles where he goes against three level five enemies, and wins (without most of his uber artifacts). check a whole bunch of his battles, and u will see that elves just seem so crazily powerful.
then check
http://www.heroeswm.com/warlog.php?warid=468907671
and see how a lvl 8 undead player is just not comparible. ignore arts, army vs army, the comparison just doesnt work. at all. and again, no, im not saying that undead is too weak, i think undead make a good baseline. i am saying that elves are overpowered - every1 must surely be able to see they are "a bit" overpowered, even if we cant agree they are significantly so.
if nothing else, check out these battles as interesting battles to see from an independant point of view, if not a tool for my argument - they certainly are something beyond the reach of most of us! :) | Indeed the elves battledance aoe, super attackin + hp unicorns, high hp druids that cast stone skin and then range, double shot bowmen, no retaliation sprites
Every single unit plays a part in making the elves gay.... not even one is dispensable...
For undead.... zombies too slow to make an impact... skeletal bowmen too low hp after on hit from enemies, ghost greatly depend on luck, only liches and vamps are scary... | They are mighty those elfs, but their luck makes them the strongest race of this game.
To tell a little about their maximum luck they can get:
Lets use the fountain = +1 luck
And more luck by using a "Amulet of luck" = +1 luck
to make it worse we ad a "Ring of doubts" = +1 luck -2 morale
Add a "Ring of inspiration" to increase the morale = + 1 morale
This gives the elfs +3 luck -1 morale
And for beïng a living creature they got already 1 morale, so:
+3 luck and 0 morale.
Here we have a killing machine or an elf.
That's far to often a bit of luck befalls on them.
Maybe even twice for the elven bowman in a row.
And they can be this strong at lvl. 4 already.
Allright, this can't be good for the balance of the game.
Furthermore the elven bowman (lvl. 3 unit) do too much damage.
my minotaurs (lvl 3 unit) do a equal amount of damage, but have 3 times as much HP.
That doesn't help much:
The elven bowman can shoot twice and I need to walk 2 times to get to them + 1 because they are gaurded by a unit + 1 because of their slow speed.
So, they can shoot four times at my minotaur (thus 8 shots each dealing 4-7 damage = 28-49 damage per unit (incl. 1/2 damage during the first two shots)) killing it before I even can attack.
(this is what I estimate as I haven't fought against the elven bowman yet)
Whit their minimum damage they can kill allmost 1 unit and I should be that strong?
Then there is an problem whit them that they don't need much magic.
Only bless is enough to make their elven bowman the worst opponent you will ever see and the other points can be spent on increasing their attack.
(that's why they are that strong)
maybe that's also the reason why many players want to kill them as fast as possible.
If I got confusion more early in the game I certainly would have used it on them.
The only luck is that at the lvl. 8 I can learn the spell ice clod.
Then I can deal water damage equal to 30+9*spell power.
And those small groups of druids won't last long in front of the elven bowman.
But I also need some luck on my heroes side as he needs to be quick to cast that spell.
Still I need 2 turns to get to those elven bowman, but If I keep my units at least 3 spaces apart their Elite forest keepers won't attack more than 1 unit.
You just have to play whit what you have and plan you way to victory.
I just keep whatching those fights whit elven players to spot a possible weak point of them to exploit. (will take some time)
Hopefully more spells will be added one day to balance the game.
I would love to summon some creatures to aid me, but that will make the magic-users stronger.
So, I know that it will be hard to find the best way balance this game.
Till that point we just have to kep trying to win of those elfs. | | Elf bowmen + luck and + critical hit = instant devastating damage that kills of anything. | for Haldamir:
Don't forget about your magic.. let's count:
on 5 level you can have, for example, 2 knowledge and 3 spellpower +1 spellpower from Cape of spirits +1 spellpower from Wizard cap +1 spellpower from Combat staff +1 spellpower from building so 7 spellpower
this is 80 damage with maguc arrow.. so 4 magic arrows that deal 320 damage
or 3 knowledge and 6 spellpower - 6 magic arrows that deal 432 damage.. is this too small amount? | for reference, dark elves appear to be the 2nd best race, going forward, from .RU server. certainly, magic combined with a very acceptable list of units is often a good combination.
also, about the luck. undead can have +3 luck aswell, without having to use a building at all... ring of doubts *2, and then that amulet of luck. ofc, morale doesnt mean anything to undead, so they actually have the best of it in this instance.
rings and necklaces have low durability tho, a poor man such as myself could never afford to use those things :p.
as much as the too and frow of logical argument seems to switch between elves and other valid races, with great spell power, or great unit durability (knights for example), you cant argue against pre statistics. elves dominate both servers. cling on to what you know and can prove, not just what we can theorise, and u will see that elf is really the only valid option. | | I would have thought that a)The statistics are self-explanatory and b)everybody knows about them already. I mean, the main reason I picked elf is because I looked at the statistics before I started playing. So why makje such a big deal out of the obvious?? |
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