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| Author | A vote about current "blindfold" tournament |
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You guys are hard thinking for nothing. As usual, I dont know HOW MANY TIMES it will take to put that in your hard shell that make your head so hard to get something inside, but we didnt TRY ANYTHING to steal your precious credits.
And saying that WGW wasnt in the push to help you against EW tricks is also false, as false as saying we are trying to steal those credits. You guys are overthinking, stop it, drop it, its no use.
Stop being on the defensive when we say you are right ! For god sake, what do you need to see we are honest when saying so ? | Simple, Dan-Panic. Read my last message about having your leaders endorse our proposals when it matters (at beginning) and not saying so at the end (when it no longer matters). Where was Kotrin (WGW Leader last time I checked) endorsing this, or that, publicly?
It doesn't matter if someone is pushing to change the server 'from within' your own ranks (ie clan mail). What good is it if no one else knows about it? What good is it if you aren't try to change things from the very beginning? I have had this discussion with various other people, from various other clans. I say "You are doing great, but where is your leader, or clan leadership folks? You stand here, alone, with no sway, or pull.
We may be hard headed in this point, but it doesn't change the fact we're right. | | Why do you absolutely need the leader comments, why only Kotrin matters, are the other members are just peons for your eyes ? I havent seen much of your members commenting apart from you and Modi. What, they can't voice their opinion ? | What are you arguing about?
I learned all about the whole "staging" thing by LoS (Modi's topic). Then limustudotcom said and told my mates to go ahead and do whatever they want, which was apparently his personal opinion on the matter. As it was not considered illegal by the admins, it's perfectly OK he did so because it could help LoS take some better positions in the ranking.
On the other hand Kotrin said to clan-mates not to stage battles which is perfectly OK too (I agree 100% with that). So WGW may lose some rankings, but with fair play.
If it's about the credit for the whole thing, credits for the exposure are surely for LoS. For Kotrin are the credits for taking a "moral" decision and telling clan-mates not to stage battles. So I think you should be together on this, not against each other :) | for limustudotcom, Dan-Panic, Modi, Erekose etc:
this is pointless inter-clan argument. do you want to know how some of the rest of us feel about this issue?
don't care at all :D
i wouldn't blame Kotrin or Limu for anything.
people that are really guilty for this stupid situation are those behind the character "Empire", and leaders of 2 worst rats' nests out there. | for Modi, makmak, limustudotcom, Dan-Panic:
Com'on guys, I believe most players following this issue would know that you guys and those from your respective clans have, generally not allowed yourselves to go down the path of, 'there's a legal loophole in this tourney, let's exploit it' ********.
You guys are mostly on the same side on this issue, who brought this matter to light ain't really that important, right?
What IS important is that despite the legal loophole, despite the rampant teaming from all corners, especially from certain clan(s) WITH endorsement from their leader(s), you guys didn't hide behind the better-gank-them-before-they-gank-us 'logic' of playing this game.
There's much more to how one behave than just laws/rules. Moral, integrity, pride etc, all make us the man (and women) we are.
So take a step back and chill guys. You are on the 'same' side as far as this issue goes. :) | | I agree with Jedi here. I don't care who discovered this blatant cheating first; the important thing is there are a lot of us who are opposed to this nonsense and don't stoop down to their level. I did not enjoy this tournament. Sure the exp and fsp were nice, but all the cheaters prevented me from doing better and took the fun out of it. I hope the dwarf war starts soon. At least the AI can't cheat ;) | Agreed. It does not matter who found this, or really what the response of WGW, LoS, or some of the other clans was. The problem is that this was allowed to occur in the first place. Of course the various clans in the community were going to respond in different ways to the empires decision that staging was not in fact a violation. The blatant response from some clans though was so repulsive that we're all left shouting at each other...
That an entire tournament was allowed to be staged, not a single battle... an entire tournament (Lvl 11) is mind-boggling. If you're not sure what I'm referring to, just take a look at the combat log of samlonewolf. I practically guarantee he's the Lvl 11 tournament winner.
In my mind, once the empire lifted the MC limitation, they not only allowed this to take place, they at least implicitly condoned it. Arguing amongst ourselves is just an exercise in misplaced anger. | We all screwed our tournament here in the first place by acting this way. :-(
Empire just allowed it. But among us, players, there is no telling who had the most evil part:
1.The players who considered necessary to kick non-clan members first even in 4vs2 cases and then fight to have exp, fsp, gold?
2.The players who estimated their winner and pushed him up in every single fight?
3.The players who fell to their level by trying to prevent this?
4.The pre-staged estimated winners, chosen by their leaders or friends?
5.The players who just stood by, doing nothing, thus allowing this?
6.The players who joined after all this in an illusion, they can have fun on their own and just became meat, exp food for those above who were organised?
These were the groups I have met during the tournament. Not sure where I belong, but there are 2 fights out of 15 I am proud of, so there were after all some fun and excitement for me in this. | | Very well put, Omega22. You captured it quite accurately. This was a failure on many, many fronts and we all bear some of the burden for the situation getting as bad as it did. We as a community need to police ourselves and not rely solely on the administration. This probably begins with clan leaders/MC leaders, but each of us has a part to play. | It begins with the clan leaders indeed...mostly because on this server many people are AFRAID to lead. Had any OTHER leaders come on board PUBLICLY to support a few of our ideas, then perhaps OTHERS would of joined out of mere complacency.
So again, it is not even an issue of misplaced anger, it is appropriately placed. Not a single leader, not one, stood up with us. And yea, Dan-Panic, a leader's voice is quite important in the forums. He/she decides what the clan will do--or heads start to roll. At least this is how it works in LoS...I've evicted plenty of people that refuse to play by the rules, and asked people that aren't team players to quit. A certain mindset is required to be one of our members, and it is always apparent how "much" leadership is in place here. I thought every clan had a command structure that ran from top to bottom. | One last thing:
Of course the 'ultimate' fault lays with a lazy administration.
However, partial fault cannot be denied to the leaders of every single MC. Granted, that the majority of players on this server do not belong to MCs...but a large enough group of ACTIVE players do, where it would of made a huge difference if everyone could of just ignored the stupid prize money, and focused more on the xp/sp multipliers that tons of people were robbed of because of the shennanigins. | | Without complaining I would just say that in stead of having blindfold tournaments we can just have group battle tournaments. I suggest so because anyway a blindfold tournament gets converted to a team match with 3 players banging on a single player so why not have GB tournament to test the real mettle? | And yea, Dan-Panic, a leader's voice is quite important in the forums.
I doubt that characters who gang up against others will care at all what you, Kotrin or any leader say in forum about this "strategy".
And sure, he's our clan leader, but I'm happy that he's not a dictator, so the sentence He/she decides what the clan will do--or heads start to roll. is obviously wrong for WGW, might be also for many other clans.
The fact is: You don't know how the different clan structures are, as long as you don't have inside look into internal clan debates and PM conversations. And we had many of them in WGW. Our clan is quite democratic, so a leader who let's heads roll without discussing it with the community would have a difficult stand.
If you can speak for all individuals of your clan, fine, I have my own voice. Which leads to this point:
At least you can't deny there were many individuals who stood up against this staged tournament (including members of nearly all clans) and if other players ignore this voices and many reasonable explainations why a behaviour of certain players does harm to the community and the game: Well, how should some clan leaders change this? I don't really get your point. And I don't see that you honor the many individuals, who stood up with their own opinion without the backup of a mighty clan or a big ingame reputation. All you say is: "Where are the leaders, where are the leaders!"
The interested player will see at the tournament results, who was "successfull" in the tournament and who not. Even if some clan leaders will remain silent about this in public, for those who care, it will be all obvious.
The ultimate fault of the administration is underestimating the small population of this server and creating such a tournament, they made a present to players, who search for every exploit to get stronger above others. | | Democractic or not, Nutella, a Leader is expected to lead. Whether or not his mates can trust that person with such a task is another story. Even in Democracies there is one that leads the people...so don't be under the illusioin that what a leader says to his clan isn't even worth the 'paper' it is written on... | Well, this post is a bit screwed because suddenly my browser refreshed page, but it's quite ok like this, so I won't rewrite.
One more thing that's missing:
I don't know Kotrin's reasons, why he didn't raise his voice that loud you wouldn't be critisizing him now, but he will have his own. He's an individual, he's free to do whatever he likes.
All in all I don't understand this angry and disrespective tone (at least between the lines), I think we are quite on the same side, only our methods may be others. | Democractic or not, Nutella, a Leader is expected to lead. Whether or not his mates can trust that person with such a task is another story. Even in Democracies there is one that leads the people...so don't be under the illusioin that what a leader says to his clan isn't even worth the 'paper' it is written on...
I don't respect Kotrin primary as a leader, then more then a person who does very much for the clan (I wouldn't like to have his PM box ^^) and takes care about it's members. For me things are fine as they are now, I don't need other persons to express my opinion. | Guys, this is a discussion on the blindfold tournament, not any individual or even any clan, though people have pointed out that clans are a major factor in causing issues in the tournament.
Don't let this sink to the point of targeting or discussing who is right or what a certain person or clan ought to have not have not done.
The tournament is about to end, let's not start a war here, ok? | | Everyone have their own way to lead, among the leadership styles, there are Commanding/democratic/coaching, etc. LOS choosen the commanding style, WGW choose the democratic style, i'm using a democratic/coaching style. Each have its own good/bad depending on situation and also what we believe in. I like to hear my clan mates opinion, that's just me ^^ simple old me. | | for Takesister: At least I don't plan this. Even if this topic is getting a bit offtopic, please don't lock it, if it doesn't hurt too much, I think it contains important points of view for the community. Sometimes it may be better to let a discussion drift away from first topic then locking it and let people grumble in silence. |
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