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| Author | Discussion polygon: LWM Staff - Moderators |
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for Dan-Panic:
Seriously, you think humans cant be consistent? You think Mods cant leave personal bias and feelings out of decisions? You think Mods cant treat every post the same regardless of who wrote it?
Do we have to accept that their is corruption in everything, even something as small as our forum Mods? | for Halvspak:
What Im saying Halvspak is, your day can affect your way to interpret things, depending if you are patient today, not annoyed and in good mood. You will most likely to be giving out soft ban and lesser bans total. I know I am a mod ! | I managed to find a reference to Faithbringer case:
https://www.lordswm.com/forum_messages.php?tid=1871672
There were similar flames rushing around Kotrin and others. Always quite the same idea, but nevermind, this forum will be so much fun without the most active mods..
This was a direct result of FaithBringer illegally deleting my posts which broke no rules to try and cover up his actions when selectively banning certain players (not myself) for an invented rule which was not applied to others in the same forum, doing the same thing as those banned, many who were in his group of friends which enabled them to have priority over their services in the trade forums.
These posts were made in: https://www.lordswm.com/forum_messages.php?tid=1864025&page=4 Discussion: The Rules, Empire, Community, Improperness, Law. created by cepruyc in an a previous attempt to deal with the MODs being discussed in this thread and their abuses of power.
They information in my profile explained the situation (covered in posts #93 onwards) and summarised my deleted posts.
Following my action and also action by others this information was made available to the community and these bans instantly ceased. If they had indeed been proper bans then the MODs would not have stopped issueing them. Other moderators also posted in another thread which I cant find at the moment but will keep looking for that they thought the bans were out of order and also said the same thing in public chat.
I will post my deleted messages after this post (though some others may post messages between due to the forums built in delay being able to post new comments.) | https://www.lordswm.com/forum_messages.php?tid=1864025&page=5 post #134
[Post deleted by moderator FaithBringer // Off-topic. This has nothing to the with the ''bumping in T&S forum'', I've deleted this before, ]
[Player banned by moderator FaithBringer until 2009-12-24 13:36:52 // Off-topic flood. This has nothing to the with the ''bumping in T&S forum'', I've deleted this before, final warning.
Additionally. I would like to share a discussion which was forwarded to me. It is from the PUBLIC Inquiry room so the people involved have already felt they did not need to keep these views comments to private PMs.
___________________________________________________________________________
from Inquiry Room public chat 23-Dec:
21:47:06 [FaithBringer] to Dan-Panic: Arctic gets many messages these days
21:47:38 [Dan-Panic] to FaithBringer: lol yes
21:47:42 [Xeno] to FaithBringer: Yes, I must have messaged him 10 times about what I want for christmas.
21:47:47 [Dan-Panic] to Xeno: Hard to tell
21:48:09 [Xeno] to FaithBringer: And that's far more important than some stuck battles!
21:48:20 [FaithBringer] to Xeno: yes that's for sure
21:48:27 [FaithBringer] to Xeno: but Arctic is not Santa
21:49:06 [FaithBringer] to Xeno: I would like to have Modi for Christmas
21:49:22 [FaithBringer] to Xeno: you think he arranges that? (A)
21:50:17 [Dan-Panic] to FaithBringer: Arctic is not Santa, but Santa can be Arctic
21:50:23 [Dan-Panic] to FaithBringer: Have you tought of that ?
21:50:35 [FaithBringer] to Dan-Panic: wow that one is sharp :)
21:50:48 [FaithBringer] to Dan-Panic: thought long about that one eh?
21:51:16 [Xeno] to FaithBringer: Well, Modi was one of the players stuck in combat, according to the post in technical forum...
21:51:19 [Dan-Panic] to FaithBringer: my broswer was stuck because of a video on youtube
21:51:25 [Xeno] to FaithBringer: ...so maybe that's your present.
21:51:54 [FaithBringer] to Xeno: nice
21:51:57 [Dan-Panic] to FaithBringer: guess all websites gets stuck one time or another :D
21:55:42 [Xeno] to FaithBringer: He even posted the problem with his multi, if you feel like going Draconian on him :)
21:57:12 [FaithBringer] to Xeno: hmm
21:57:17 [FaithBringer] to Xeno: I'm not that short-sighted
21:57:31 [FaithBringer] to Xeno: the only sad thing is that I can stand up for myself
21:57:37 [FaithBringer] to Xeno: don;t need a whole clan to help me..
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I am only asking that any of the people involved use this right and proper place where we are having a a "discussion" of "The Rules, Empire, Community, Improperness, Law." to explain their comments lest any of us draw the wrong meanings from them? | https://www.lordswm.com/forum_messages.php?tid=1864025&page=5 post #135
[Post deleted by moderator FaithBringer // Moderators on chat decide if posts in public chat are allowed, If you don;t agree with their decisio]
[Player banned by moderator FaithBringer until 2009-12-24 20:04:41 // Moderators on chat decide if posts in public chat are allowed, If you don;t agree with their decision, write secretary.
A few minutes ago the following post was deleted for being off topic. I would therefore like to clarify the topic. This is to do with Improperness of discussing people in a detrimetnal manners in the public community areas.
[Post deleted by moderator FaithBringer // Off-topic. This has nothing to the with the ''bumping in T&S forum'', I've deleted this before, ] <-- I did not once mention bumping in the T7S forum? Why did you think it did?
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Additionally. I would like to share a discussion which was forwarded to me. It is from the PUBLIC Inquiry room so the people involved have already felt they did not need to keep these views comments to private PMs.
___________________________________________________________________________
from Inquiry Room public chat 23-Dec:
21:47:06 [FaithBringer] to Dan-Panic: Arctic gets many messages these days
21:47:38 [Dan-Panic] to FaithBringer: lol yes
21:47:42 [Xeno] to FaithBringer: Yes, I must have messaged him 10 times about what I want for christmas.
21:47:47 [Dan-Panic] to Xeno: Hard to tell
21:48:09 [Xeno] to FaithBringer: And that's far more important than some stuck battles!
21:48:20 [FaithBringer] to Xeno: yes that's for sure
21:48:27 [FaithBringer] to Xeno: but Arctic is not Santa
21:49:06 [FaithBringer] to Xeno: I would like to have Modi for Christmas
21:49:22 [FaithBringer] to Xeno: you think he arranges that? (A)
21:50:17 [Dan-Panic] to FaithBringer: Arctic is not Santa, but Santa can be Arctic
21:50:23 [Dan-Panic] to FaithBringer: Have you tought of that ?
21:50:35 [FaithBringer] to Dan-Panic: wow that one is sharp :)
21:50:48 [FaithBringer] to Dan-Panic: thought long about that one eh?
21:51:16 [Xeno] to FaithBringer: Well, Modi was one of the players stuck in combat, according to the post in technical forum...
21:51:19 [Dan-Panic] to FaithBringer: my broswer was stuck because of a video on youtube
21:51:25 [Xeno] to FaithBringer: ...so maybe that's your present.
21:51:54 [FaithBringer] to Xeno: nice
21:51:57 [Dan-Panic] to FaithBringer: guess all websites gets stuck one time or another :D
21:55:42 [Xeno] to FaithBringer: He even posted the problem with his multi, if you feel like going Draconian on him :)
21:57:12 [FaithBringer] to Xeno: hmm
21:57:17 [FaithBringer] to Xeno: I'm not that short-sighted
21:57:31 [FaithBringer] to Xeno: the only sad thing is that I can stand up for myself
21:57:37 [FaithBringer] to Xeno: don;t need a whole clan to help me..
___________________________________________________________________________
I am only asking that any of the people involved use this right and proper place where we are having a a "discussion" of "The Rules, Empire, Community, Improperness, Law." to explain their comments lest any of us draw the wrong meanings from them? | Yes there is a degree to which one should have flexibility in doing their job. But that doesnt, or shouldnt mean that whether a person gets punished and how severe it is depends on their mood.
As a general rule you can expect if someone else can do something you should be able to do it, just as if you get punished for something they should also if they do it. This is called being consistent. Dont try and say that only bots are capable of this. | There was nothing illegal about this post. It was not discussing anything which the moderators involved had not already discussed in public chat and was deleted and I was banned purely in an effort to try and cover up what they had been doing and as an excessive and undeserved punishment.
The actual screen shot of this conversation is still available in Modi's profile https://www.lordswm.com/photo_pl_photos.php?aid=5259
Additional background to this is that a short while previously another group of mods had been insulting and posting harmful comments about Modi in public chat. Arctic was involved at the time of the original comments and the chat mods who are there and meant to be stopping these sorts of insults and comments about people not in chat promised that they would ensure no more such discussions were allowed to take place. At least one of these chat mods was present in the room during this subsequent incident.
Not only were these people continuing insulting and posting derogatory comments about a player not present. You can also see one moderator trying to goad another one into issueing a ban to Modi's additional character for posting in the technical help forum with his alt because his main was stuck in combat. Even though this is specifically allowed under the rules:
https://www.lordswm.com/help.php?section=6
1.7. Additional characters are not allowed to leave messages at the "Main forums" sections of the forum. Applications in "Justice" and "Technical questions" sections are allowed. | | Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Rule 1.7 is new and didn't exist at the time of the incident. | quote]Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Rule 1.7 is new and didn't exist at the time of the incident.
nope - it was there at the time of this incident as I re-checked it at the time.[ | LoL @ Dan-Panic...you write for the sake of writing I think, but out of a tiny shred of respect, I'll reply to your "theory."
If you cannot do your job well when in a position of dropping down justice...then you don't. Simple as that. You hope that one of the OTHER Mods can do so...it isn't like we have just one mod for the entire server. This is the "self-check" approach. Another good approach, is you come back to it later, once you do cool off (assuming you're a moody person, or are in a bad mood for "x" reason(s)). When I'm in a rotten mood (it does happen) I don't even log this game. I'll just crack open a few beers, relax, and then come play a bit if I still have time...or do whatever else calms you down...if you are in a constant state of anger--you'll always take EVERYTHING as a threat, and you'll always be looking for people to add to your "victim list." The smarter they are, the calmer they are, the more popular they are, the bigger the bull's eye target: to give your rampage some 'intrinsic value.'
If I was a mod, not that I have the time to be the best example of one, I'd work hard to stimulate forum activity and only ban when 'absolutely' necessary. Certain mods were too emotional...dropping inconsistent punishments for identical crimes...not based in the context of the forum...but in the context of their own personal feelings.
Back to your other fallacy. A droid, or a machine, or some thoughtless "yes-man" or "verbatim-disciple" would simply fail miserably at community building endeavors. Why? Because it requires hard work, patience, intelligence...why bother some may logically conclude? Emotional outbursts would have no thought process whatsoever...like an agry policeman that spilled some coffee on his shirt because he hit a pot-hole inbetween doughnut bites...so the next person to slightly bend the law gets slammed lol. Venting at the public's expense..nothing new here.
Community building is work, but it should be enjoyable if your heart is in the right place. A new player here even commented that as "a newbie," the forums are intimidating because bans come down like rain in Seattle...let's put some sunshine back here, fellas.
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But please, Arctic, with future appointments...make sure they are adults (smaller, higher quality pool for this type of work)...and please make sure they understand what it means to show restraint and empathy (Break some rules during their probation period with a fake alias, see how they handle it, etc).
Cheers,
LS | @96:
Take queries and help. Every wrong or retarded answer is better deleted. While the nice people leaving these answers might be offended by their deletion, mod knows he cannot be offended by his own actions, so he just deletes the mess to clarify. Same goes for posts breaking the rules.
That is not what I meant. In your case, I agree that such a post should be deleted. My case was different. Well, I can not provide link to to prove my point at the moment. But I know what I am talking about, and it is not your case.
This goes ussually other way around. Mods is contacted by a victim saying that he offended him and broke rule. He has 2 choices: 1.Contact his superior, 2.Ban himself like anyone else.
eg: Take a look at post #9 in this topic by Kotrin. Who do you think contact him and tell him that he is offended by Kotrin's post, so that Kotrin feel like he should ban himself? I am sure Kotrin do this on purpose. Sorry Kotrin.. this is only for example. Not to attack you personally. | I would like to see you do that in chat, take a break, tinker about it and oh realized you missed it and get linched cause you havent done your job properly. Oh well, that might be just me who dont know my job.
Anyways, Kotrin and all the other mods were doing all they could to hold the server and thus without Administration, you dont even know how much stress that this can put on someone's shoulders that inst suppose to have all that pressure. People asking, when, why, how come and you have no answer to give them, each and everyday. Im sure you would do a fine mod for about, what 2-3 months, then you would turn like the others, just as bad as you think they are.
Its a ungrateful job to be a mod, just like being police, hated by a lot just cause of have the title and push to the limits of their patience. And just like police heavily analysed when you have done something wrong and always reminded that you arent perfect.
All in all, I will comeback with what I have said earlier in my other post.
I blame Arctic : Ungrateful to his Staff, Abscence, Cowardness in taking a decision about a problem that was not so bad last year.
I blame the Mods : Abusing powers, inventing laws, being inconsistent
I blame the community : Pushing mods to the limits over and over again, not supportive of the mods during the great Dark Ages at all, ungrateful for mods job during those 2 years they have given for the game.
The blame shouldnt be put on one man or a group's shoulder but on every and each players that have roamed the forums and have 'searched' trouble with the mods. | | I agree with Dan-Panic | Been here for only 5 days, but I've seen much heated conversation.
Took a look in the Official announcements, and yeah, not much has occurred in the past year. Much less compared to a year '08, in which LWM was launched.
I blame Arctic : Ungrateful to his Staff, Abscence, Cowardness in taking a decision about a problem that was not so bad last year.
I blame the Mods : Abusing powers, inventing laws, being inconsistent
I blame the community : Pushing mods to the limits over and over again, not supportive of the mods during the great Dark Ages at all, ungrateful for mods job during those 2 years they have given for the game.
I totally agree with Dan.
Luckily, at least Kotrin stepped down and decided to become a normal LWM player. Arctic has been in absence for a long time, just comes on to enroll once in a while. Not much action taken by him. Sometimes, we expect too much and ask of too much. The men and women who have played this game and kept it still online have put quite a chunk of their life into this game, and I'm contempt with what's going on thus far. Yes, it'd be great to have more updates similar to .ru, but we are at least an online server. It may not last for much longer, a year, a few months, maybe even a week.
We've seem to have fallen into the 'Dark Ages' once again, with less than minimal updates and more players quitting. Hopefully, somehow, our server will be full of players every day, reaching about possibly 3000 or so players around the day. If our server was like .ru, we'd have not as much problems. Unfortunately, we're the English server, and we're a heck of a lot less popular. We can only pray to God (or your religious leader) something will happen soon to launch this server into less havoc and more ease. | man, it was just afew hrs sleeping but the topic had increase more than 4 pages from my last visit. to reply some previous posts:
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- why are some players get heavy punishment while other dont in same case?
in your opinions, which should get heavier punishment? 'constant breaking rules' OR '1st time breaking rules'?
mods can have a look on the punishment history records before do something. for those with '1st broke', mod can be slightly mercy except some serious cases.
obviously, those who constant broke the rules will get heavier punishment. he/she already got 1st punishment. he/she suppose check and find out what had he did is wrong and learn to not repeat again.
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- why are some players got punished while some dont?
1st of all, mods are just human and players in LWM. do you expect mods 24/7 patrol around forum and check all topic 1 by 1? there are thousand or even million topic in forum. whoever think mods should do so, he/she should get a life in real life.
thx to some players, they found something wrong. they PM mods, therefore mods drop in that topic and do some moderation. that's why some topic was miss moderated by mods without other helping.
yet, players suppose self-behave more often. this could prevent yourself get in trouble AND reduce job from other players and mods.
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- why cant mods punish cheaters while focus banning on forum?
good question. it is all about the power to access. mods have limited power; with that, mods just do what they can. anything beyond is impossible. yet, you should complain this to admin and not mods.
even there is no update in game, mods still try to enforce the rules to maintain and keep thing in control. what if all mods are missing right now? all i can see is chaos and nothing else.
yet, we had bring this issues to Arctic before. it is all about the decisions from those admin team; we mods can do nothing.
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- mods create own rules?
hmm, this is debatable. simple, we got stated rules AND common sense. a few months ago, Arctic had ban someone with 'initial flaming'. we dont have a rule about 'initial flaming'; but Arctic ban it before turn into a flaming which is a bigger trouble. this is the common sense which not included rules.
beside common sense, we got local rules on different sub forum, take example on 'no bump', 'no 3rd party comments' in CaA sub forum. those rules were only apply in that sub forum but not all forum.
it is important that such rules needed to maintain the case. we have to make sure no 3rd party comments, discussion which could affect the judgment on juries to kill the cheaters. no bump so all the cases can be 1st come 1st serve.
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- mods abuse power?
we dont really have MANY actual power abuse cases. i admit that we got some BUT not majority. mods are human, they have emotions too. ofc, some mods might lose rational in constant provoke while modding. this could lead to abuse power.
in most cases, players never learn what they did will complain on abusive. i got a big hatred fans club right now which always complain on my power abusive.
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- should mod come from any clan?
this is quite subjective. simple, why should a player give up the clan advantage (cheaper repair, enhance and so on) to become a mod? will you do that?
some players might say it will allow the mod to stand on the side of that clan while modding. i would say, it is not really significant so far. as for me, i still punish someone even he is from my clan.
yet, leaving the clan means nothing. that mod still can keep the relationship with that clan if needed. it is about how the mod maintain the fairness.
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as a mod, i dont need your respect (whoever mentioned that in previous posts). all i need: players should stop doing bad thing which will cost mods extra stamina to deal with you guys :) | The only good point of this thread is to expose Limustudotcom's way of thinking (post https://www.lordswm.com/forum_messages.php?tid=1877993&page=3#371340 ), paranoiac tendencies and lust for power included, as well as revealing DEATHisNEAR's naughty little scheme (selectively, pseudo-recorded "chat sessions") to create a case against mods and boasting oneself as an attorney.
Thanks to their cabal, the obstacles are less numerous now. But their plans are exposed too - this was worth my resignation alone.
Those guys are dangerous and should NEVER EVER be appointed to any in-game position of power. I think that even making them juries (as if they were the only honest players around... sheesh!) was a bad move, made to temporarily quench their lust for power with a token title, but giving them a varnish of respectability they definitely don't deserve - and which they now exploit to move their agenda further. | | +1000 to Kotrin's last post. Not to mention they are mean, they use vulgar language, they abuse their powers and they threaten kids into their possession. After all, LoS's original and only goal was to dominate and ruin Lwm, which they already succeeded in. | As stated in LoS-thread in Clans forum:
Server may seem pretty dead....... the leadership (of LoS) will sink with this server, or enjoy it.
Well, in this case I will accept if admins shut down this server.
I know, off topic - someone here to ban me ? | Post 117 and 118.
Frankly, I see no basis to your opinions, rather they are just personal accusations. If you have something against certain players, use PM for that. Showing your frustration on the forum just shows you immaturity.
After all, LoS's original and only goal was to dominate and ruin Lwm, which they already succeeded in.
Excuse me, hiddenshadow, but if we are to RUIN this game, why are we STILL here in the first place? Saying the clan has an agenda to cause destruction is like saying another country is about to go to war for nothing without any proof. This clan which I am in does not deserve such baseless attacks on public forums. If you have a personal issue, take it up with the ones YOU have problems with. Saying LOS are mean, they use vulgar language, they abuse their powers and they threaten kids into their possession is nothing more than PERSONAL opinions, which should be kept confidential or taken up with the persons involved.
I know, off topic - someone here to ban me ?
And this coming from someone which I thought was respectable and law-abiding.
Doing a wrong because others have done so doesnt make one right.
Take note, if you have personal opinions, LET THEM STAY PERSONAL. Clans are not an issue here, it has been reiterated so many times. Maturity, people.
To Kotrin #116:
I had always thought you were a better person than that.
Apologies for being off-topic, just responding to inaccuracies. | Not to mention they are mean, they use vulgar language, they abuse their powers and they threaten kids into their possession. After all, LoS's original and only goal was to dominate and ruin Lwm, which they already succeeded in.
#post 117
Be careful what you had posted here..this thread created by Arctic to solve problem and not to create more problem..please think before you posted here
in my opinion mods shouldn't show their emotion/current mood while on duty..I mean when they make decision they shouldn't do their job according to their mood..as many post mention that mods are human too and they have feeling and emotion..yes i agree with that but they need to CONTROL their feeling in order to fulfill their duty..
Like LS said in post 110 Arctic please pick mods that are adults and mature and can handling things nicely |
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