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| Author | whats the point |
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for vishnus:
I doubt if u have had any basic scientific training at all. This data you gave means NOTHING. Top 10% does not mean anything if not everyone has done all 20 battles---apparently many of them have not. Plus your sample pool is too small to be useful.
Even if you think your data is meaningful, I can still see that DE is the strongest faction in lvl 9 (which is ur level) and lvl 11. Way stronger than other factions. lol | Magic DE weak in PVP
Magic DE weak in PvP ? When did I say? If I had then it is my typing mistake. I said might DE weak in PvP at lvl8 and below. Also I can't revert back to lvl7 and test other factions nor I can create 6 multis to test rest 6 factions. By seeing a faction's army and their battles, you can atleast tell against whom the odd are, right?
Even if you think your data is meaningful, I can still see that DE is the strongest faction in lvl 9 (which is ur level) and lvl 11
And you can also find find no DE at lvl 5, wizard strongest in lvl 5,barbs way strong in 4,6 , knight strong in 8,9 and way strong in 10 , deamon way strong at 6. Thats why I took & total .
Top 10% does not mean anything if not everyone has done all 20 battles---apparently many of them have not
You and I cannot be sure of that . The link you gave is about lvl 12 and up. It doesn't tell anything about lower lvls do they ? | It doesn't tell anything about lower lvls do they
You're right, it doesnt tell about lower lvls, it could be different, but we have to say it remains as a "dark area" that no one knows. But you sounds like at lower lvl DE is so weak which is not true.
And you can also find find no DE at lvl 5, wizard strongest in lvl 5,barbs way strong in 4,6 , knight strong in 8,9 and way strong in 10 , deamon way strong at 6. Thats why I took & total .
I dont see anything wrong with it. No faction is supposed to be strong at all levels. Since DE is strong at 2 different mid-levels according to ur data, I think you have nothing to complain about. | I dont see anything wrong with it. No faction is supposed to be strong at all levels. Since DE is strong at 2 different mid-levels according to ur data, I think you have nothing to complain about.
And below average/ very weak in many other. Thats why I took %total, it sums up % of DE/knight/Wizzy... in top 10% of all lvls . And as you said that not all play all 20 games, you cannot be sure that players of which faction didn't play. And good players usually play whole 20 battles. But the best way to know whether a faction is weak/ strong is to have a demo and test with diff builds and talents in full art . | for vishnus:
I do not want to continue the discussion about this since we have no reliable data to demonstrate lower lvl battles. However according to ur data (apparently flawed but since you stick on it I'll take it as an example), DE is absolutely better than demon and necro, and not much difference than elf before lvl 12. After lvl 12 it seems like DE is not as good from ur data, but since we have much better data about it, we should ignore ur data. | But you sounds like at lower lvl DE is so weak which is not true]
I have heard another version of it before at lvl 5 or 6-
My friend, no offense, but I think you need to play more at higher levels to get a better picture
Need more? 3000 words per post is not enough, my friend.- Jedi Knight
Finds DE really weak in PvP in lvl 7 and 8 also. Leaves the game and returns after some months. Then I find some high lvl players saying might DE is weak at lvl5,6,7 and that at lvl8 DE has low chance to win against many factions .Then pang saying lvl 8 and down are still unbalanced when I am at lvl9 . Thats why I am not ready to accept when others say at higher lvls DE are balanced . | After lvl 12 it seems like DE is not as good from ur data, but since we have much better data about it, we should ignore ur data.
Yeah thats ok . | Well pang i never played with kight, i was thinking they have no problem on hunters, because high number of troops + atributes works better than with low number troops...
And kighs have alot cheap talents...
But if you said kight ins't easy to hunter too, i will belive because i don't have one. | you must have forgotten elves and demons --- well actually there're 4 factions that depends heavily on hit&run in hunting, more than half, not only DE!
Yeah I forgot elf sprites and demon cerberi.
as for darkness cost, there are something you just miss out. dark spells influence is higher than holy spells especially when we talk on those % effect.
another example: what happen if you can get full load of offense talent + dark talent? so, expert delay tag with your high initiative shrew, lizzy and black dragon? woohoo.... you wanna wipe all other units out within 2 turns and all other factions should have no chance to fight back?
Dark spell's area was increased bcause it was not as effective as holy magic. Only delay spell prevails when both delay and haste are cast on a unit with same mastry. Other spells like curse, weakness can be removed by casting respective holy magic spells. Also when using holy magic, you have to consider your troops alone. When taking domin in darkness magic, some mass spells are useless against cretain factions. Yes this only matters when you get an unknown enemy like in minor tourney. But more importantly , when casting holy magic, there is no problem of magic resistance while casting darkness , enemy's resistance gets affected. Dark Elves cannot full pierce. In my level against a barb of same faction lvl, 20% delay have only 11% effect. And most importantly holy magic is useful in PvE much more than darkness spells. The neutrals wouldn't be standing together for hero to cast on all of them. But hero's troops would be.More hero concentrates in darkness spells, harder PvE becomes for them. | | Interesting facts : Should I complain because DE scored higher in almost all level then Necromancers ? Admins should definitly boost necromancers ! LoL | Should I complain because DE scored higher in almost all level then Necromancers ? Admins should definitly boost necromancers ! LoL
oh, please, no! nec is already a killer for elves! lol | | | [Post deleted by moderator Pang // ] | | [Post deleted by moderator Pang // wrong post] | Well pang i never played with kight,
And kighs have alot cheap talents...
perhaps, it is just because you never play knight? that's why you wont see the downside on knight :)
feel free to read those knight topic on GGF and show your opinions. i m sure you will change your mind about knight later on. oh, dont worry, 144 pages OR 2880 posts are worth to be read. we dont post much nonsense there :)
the main reason is you will always jealous on other faction with certain abilities while your faction doesnt have. so, Any faction can be the best; BUT definitely not the one you are playing now. ©
you can ALWAYS switch to that faction if you think the one you are playing is hard now (this apply to vishnus too ;p ).
i was thinking they have no problem on hunters, because high number of troops + atributes works better than with low number troops...
as i said, that all knight can get: quantity over quality. they might have alot troops but they are too slow to hit the maximum damage output in a fight.
But if you said kight ins't easy to hunter too, i will belive because i don't have one.
as i mentioned, knight only good in certain hunt BUT not all. somehow, there is a very good reason for knight join as your hunt assistant. that knight is a good bait to lure those stack focus on him LOL
i would say even DE is a better hunter than knight, they are all-round good in most hunts. | oh wait, let me correct this, such 'counter spells' had been removed since the last 2 updates
Lol I never expected you to say it! The thing that was removed was that, the second cast spell REPLACE the first cast spell if they are similar like haste and delay. Now if same spells are cast on a stack, both have effect and can nullify each other if they are of same talent lvl except for delay which has some adv over haste. Like if on talent curse and no talent bless is cast on an unit, it's status appears as if it is under no effect as long as both spells are in effect . I have seen thing 2-3 times while duelling knights.
in general, you shrew can get 3 times more than farmer. ok, lets take back your example: dont you think that delay 11% is better than none? the 11% can be a key for you to survive or dead :)
Lol thats why I cast them :) What I am saying is at such situations, holy magic is better than darkenss even with DE's pierce magic. Lets take hob goblin and swords in two arena A and B. In A knight casts no talent delay. Hobs will have 8.9 ini (knight borrowed piercing magic for a while) . In B knight casts rapid on swords with no talent- 9.6 ini . Ratio of swords ini to hobgoblin in A- 0.9 in B- 9.6
So holy magic is much better in these situations.
in general, you shrew can get 3 times more than farmer.
2 turns unless shrew gets a morale or 50% ini. Shrew-16 , farmer-8
With expert delay- shrew-16 and farmer 4.8. So 3.333 turns. Increase no of hits by .67%. But you can't get whole stacks- max 2 when there is 3 or 3 when there is 5. Also spell power and knowledge wouldn't last long for hit and run and casting mass spell all time(your number of hits before farmer gains extra speed wouldn't change but your damage decreases hugely because of taking SP, know and talents) Darkness is not as suited in hunts as holy .
you can ALWAYS switch to that faction if you think the one you are playing is hard now If I find some thing challenging, I try to over come it and more challenging, more stubborn to over come it unless it seems too big. In lvl9 I could finally beat almost all factions except Knight and wizzy. Well every faction has weakness( but definitly should not be too much).
bah... you should do more research or check all the similar msg i had posted. the balance start at level 8 Lol I miss spelled. Well, I feel in lvl8 also DE are underpowered.
Any faction can be the best; BUT definitely not the one you are playing now.
I didn't say any faction is best , I just said , a faction is worse :)
Also I didn't feel so when I was lvl3,4 and doesn't feel that way about my barb account. | Now if same spells are cast on a stack, both have effect and can nullify each other if they are of same talent lvl except for delay which has some adv over haste.
bah... adv delay can kill expert rapid, same to curse kill bless; all dark spells (based on % effect)cant counter holy spells even holy spell has higher 1 mastery. please go and find it out.
Also spell power and knowledge wouldn't last long for hit and run and casting mass spell all time(your number of hits before farmer gains extra speed wouldn't change but your damage decreases hugely because of taking SP, know and talents) Darkness is not as suited in hunts as holy .
to prevent the speed increased, you need to finish them asap. so, either you speed up your initiative, or pray burst action / luck befall. the burst action and luck befall were trigger-based parameter; while initiative is always-on effect.
as you complain that new AI was smart, they will form a net and slowly close up your shrew. in this case, you will even need more initiate you can had to finish your opponents asap without risking the speed increasing.
so, do you really pray that luck always on your side? for me, NO, i wont risk that. you have strive of speed under offense talent grant you adv mass rapid; or you can get dark spells for delay to assist you. with the more turn you get, it will increase the chance of trigger on both morale and luck as well.
Also spell power and knowledge wouldn't last long for hit and run and casting mass spell all time(your number of hits before farmer gains extra speed wouldn't change but your damage decreases hugely because of taking SP, know and talents) Darkness is not as suited in hunts as holy .
no one say dark built is better than holy built. but, in certain cases, dark built can work better than holy built; not even holy built suit in long run. | In lvl9 I could finally beat almost all factions except Knight and wizzy.
Wow, thats 5 factions on 7 : to use percentage : 71% advantages over other factions. And you call it balanced ?
Show me a level where Necromancer overule other factions by this margin and Ill start complaining like you, on your side. :P Else, this is a joke. | you can get dark spells for delay to assist you. with the more turn you get, it will increase the chance of trigger on both morale and luck as well.
The thing that vishnus is trying to say is that darkness magic doesn't change when the troops speed up. If shrews would have got 20 chances (without morale) before a speed up, if you use a delay, they will still get only 20 chances before the speed up. You can just hit the farmers more if you use the delay, say from 10 times to 14 times.
Whereas, if you use a rapid on the shrews, your shrews now get about 25-30 chances before speed up (not an actual calculation). Now, not only can you hit farmers more often, but also your shrews get more chances, and so number of hits increases from 10 to about 18 before the speed up. Also, since you get more turns, you have more chance for morale and luck. | all dark spells (based on % effect)cant counter holy spells even holy spell has higher 1 mastery. please go and find it out
I have a battle where I curse an xbow and enemy blesses both with no talent and no resultant effect. But I also have a battle where basic haste gets nullified by no talent delay. Thats bcause basic haste + normal delay=
I (initiative of creature ) *1.25(haste) * (1-0.2)delay = X (.8 *1.25 = 1)
What you said is only for delay. Rest of spells what I said. |
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