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| Author | May 21, 2011-End Of The World? |
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Also, we don't try to take the moral high ground and claim that what we have done was right and that we have a better claim to the land the the people who lived their. We accept we conquered, them, that we used might is right logic. Israel don't accept that.
While sitting on admitted conquered land, you aspire to tell Israel what it should and should not do with their own conquered land.
Israel also has over 1 million Palis living as citizens of Israel. Want to know why? Because when Israel was being threatened by 5 armies in 1948, they begged the Palis to stay and help them, instead of leaving.
They left, many joined in the battle to wipe out Israel, and they will not return because it was quite obvious that they didn't feel the land was worth dying for, while the other Palis who stayed, did.
End of story. | In 1948 A group of soldiers was telling people we are now going to live here, Israel is reborn. As people were already living there, something had to give. If you had a group of people pointing guns at you but saying, "Don't worry, you can still live here and all these Jewish people from around the world will live here too, somehow we'll find room" would you trust them?
You keep choosing to believe what makes you feel better. Just as people choose to ignore that The USA started the practice of scalping, not the Indians, that as part of a peace treaty the USA gave Indians gifts that had been infected with small pox, for decades we in Aus ignored the "Stolen Generation" ,so does Israel choose to try to ignore history.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/a-massacre-of-arabs-masked-by-a-state-of-na tional-amnesia-1970018.html
What's done officially and what happens on the ground is often very different.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/september/17/newsid_2519000/2519637.stm
The Palis can trust those Israelis to do what's best for them. | In 1948 A group of soldiers was telling people we are now going to live here, Israel is reborn. As people were already living there, something had to give. If you had a group of people pointing guns at you but saying, "Don't worry, you can still live here and all these Jewish people from around the world will live here too, somehow we'll find room" would you trust them?
Nice narrative but the facts are that most of the land was a desert UNTIL the Jews returned and made it an oasis. Many of what are today's Palis came there from around the region for work. Yeah work, something the Middle East has still not understood.
The JEWS died by the thousands, sacrificing their lives to purify the Malaria infested swamps, not the Palis. Nobody wanted that land until the Jews returned.
And who is to blame for many Palis leaving the area? The Palis themselves, who told the others that the Jews were killing and raping their women to stir up unrest. They never counted on their lies to turn into the exodus of the land but they did.
Oh well. | Most people have no idea what happened in the land of Israel and what is now happening. The information they get is soundbites and short clips of rock-throwers against bullets.
Well let me prove to you how you have been duped by the duplicitous Palis and their media cohorts.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mA4WQ-MbjRo
Now I ask anyone who has a few minutes to watch and see the lies being told to the world. This clip has it all, showing the staged events that the news shows us. They even have fake funeral marches where the dead man falls off the bier and gets up to lie down once again. Pathetic.
Also, its a 60 Minutes video so don't dismiss it as right wing propaganda. | If a man broke into your house with the intent to slaughter your family, would you say that killing him in self defense is justified? Or does he have the right to just wipe you out?
Let's compare Holy books of Christianity, Judaism, and Islam.
Judaism( the Hebrew Bible or Old Testament) says that Jerusalem will be surrounded by its enemies, intent on wiping them out, and the Jewish Messiah comes and destroys those armies. Self Defense.
Christianity(the New Testament) says the same thing but identifies the Messiah as Jesus. Again, self defense.
Islam says that the Muslims will surround Jerusalem to destroy the Jews, every one, then Judgment Day will come. Offense.
And I quote:
"The last hour would not come unless the Muslims will fight against the Jews and the Muslims would kill them until the Jews would hide themselves behind a stone or a tree and a stone or a tree would say: Muslim, or the servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me; come and kill him; but the tree Gharqad would not say, for it is the tree of the Jews."
Look at this video and see the youngster quoting this passage at 00:36
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vtt8V25lGmc&feature=related
And, it is quoted all over the Islamic world, not just in that clip^^. The thing is, you have to actually investigate it if you want to know the truth.
Now tell me again why Jews should make peace? Fact is you don't make peace with people shouting out they are going to kill you! Any imbecile should be able to grasp that. | Oh I totally agree, if someone came into my house with the intent to slaughter my family I would totally believe that killing in self-defense is justified.
Just as I'm sure those who used to be living in Deir Yassin would have been justified in fighting back in self-defense for example.
So why is it that only Israel is permitted to defend themselves? Aren't the Palestinians allowed to defend themselves too?
Interesting how Israel has, over time, annexed significant areas of the land allocated to the Palestinians in the 1949 armistice (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1949_Armistice_Agreements) and even since the 6 day war (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six_Day_War).
So would Israel find it acceptable for the Palestinians to re-acquire land they used to possess in a similar orgy of "self-defense"?
Some interesting reading for those that believe that Israel is the only wronged party in the Israel-Palestinian conflict.
http://www2.ohchr.org/english/bodies/hrcouncil/specialsession/9/factfindingmission.htm
http://www2.ohchr.org/english/bodies/hrcouncil/specialsession/9/docs/HRCPressRelease29092009.do c
http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/09/is-it-anti-semitic-to-defend-palestinian-human-rights/
There's *always* more than 1 side to any story, no matter what Modi would like others to believe. For example, a claim of "self-defense" was used by German defendants to try to excuse their actions in the Nuremberg trials. See http://www.benferencz.org/index.php?id=4&article=104 for details.
The lead defendant, Dr. General Otto Ohlendorf, explained why it was that he reported that 90,000 Jews had been eliminated, they never used the word "murder" - He calmly declared that it was necessary in self-defense...
"What do you mean, 'self defense'? Germany attacked Poland, Norway, Holland, Sweden, and France, etc. Nobody attacked Germany. Where's the self-defense?"
"Well," he said, "we knew the Soviets were planning to attack us, so we had to attack them in self-defense."
"Well, why did you kill all the Jews?"
"Well, everybody knows the Jews were in favor of the Bolsheviks, so you have to kill all the Jews too."
"Why the little children? Why did you kill all the little children?"
"Well, if they grow up and they become enemies of Germany when they find out what happened to their parents that would be dangerous a threat to our long-range security, so we'd better get rid of them too."
He was saying to me, "Don't you see the logic of it all?" And so he explained that.
I said, "Didn't you have any qualms about killing all these people, little children and all that?"
"No," he said, "because we relied on the head of state, Hitler. He had more information than I had, and he told us that the Soviets planned to attack, so it was necessary in presumed self-defense."
See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimes_against_peace, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_aggression, for information as to why Modi is so concerned with making Israel out to be acting in self-defense.
To paraphrase Modi, Now tell me again why Arabs should make peace? Fact is you don't make peace with people shouting out they are going to kill you! Any imbecile should be able to grasp that.
I would also like to respond to the "Palliwood" link that Modi provided in Post # 424. It is clear that the "60 minutes" attributed section of that video is contained in the 0:06 second to 0:46 second period. After that the "60 minutes" logo disappears and "Netzarim" appears along with a new narrator. So claiming it as a 60 Minutes video so don't dismiss it as right wing propaganda is a clear exercise in misrepresentation by Modi, as we have seen again and again and again. Information regarding the original source of thi | Information regarding the original source of this video can be found here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pallywood).
I actually am not surprised that the palestinians have discovered that their most effective weapon against Israel is popular opinion of the rest of the world. If they were smart they would have engaged in a Gandhi-like "civil disobedience" from the start. This would have stopped the fiction of "Self-Defense" before it even started and placed world opinion firmly in the palestinian court from the word go.
And for those who may think that it is only Paletine engaging in fraudulent "Public Relations" exercises should consult a link provided earlier by BarbarianFishy in Post # 422.
In 2006, an Israeli arts student, Neta Shoshani, applied for access to the Deir Yassin archives for a university project, believing a 50-year embargo on the secret documents had expired eight years previously. She was granted limited access to the material, but was informed that there was an extended ban on the more sensitive documents. When a lawyer demanded an explanation, it emerged that a ministerial committee only extended the ban more than a year after Ms Shoshani's first request, exposing the state to a legal challenge. The current embargo runs until 2012.
Defending its right to keep the documents under wraps, the Israeli state has argued that their publication would tarnish the country's image abroad and inflame Arab-Israeli tensions. Ha'aretz and Ms Shoshani have countered that the public have a right to know and confront their past.
Judges, who have viewed all the archived evidence held by the Israeli state on Deir Yassin, have yet to make a decision on what, if anything, to release. Among the documents believed to be in the state's possession is a damning report written by Meir Pa'il, a Jewish officer who condemned his compatriots for bloodthirsty and shameful conduct on that day. Equally incriminating are the many photographs that survive.
"The photos clearly show there was a massacre," says Daniel McGowan, a US retired professor who works with Deir Yassin Remembered. "Those photos show [villagers] lined up against a quarry wall and shot."
The fraudulent practices by Israel are the suppression and deliberate ignorance of incidents that don't agree with the "wronged" image that they are trying to project.
Still in the practice of misrepresenting the situation solely to try and shore up your side of the argument Modi?
Grunge | Oh, and to be clear, I think both sides of the Israel-Palestine conflict are at fault.
Palestine should not be engaged in violence against Israel. It harms civilians and enables a "self-defense" doctrine that Israel relies on to justify retaliation.
Israel should similarly not be engaged in violence against Palestine. It harms civilians and comes uncomfortably close being engaged in "ethnic cleansing".
The official United Nations definition of ethnic cleansing is "rendering an area ethnically homogeneous by using force or intimidation to remove from a given area persons of another ethnic or religious group." See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_cleansing.
Grunge | I would also like to respond to the "Palliwood" link that Modi provided in Post # 424. It is clear that the "60 minutes" attributed section of that video is contained in the 0:06 second to 0:46 second period. After that the "60 minutes" logo disappears and "Netzarim" appears along with a new narrator. So claiming it as a 60 Minutes video so don't dismiss it as right wing propaganda is a clear exercise in misrepresentation by Modi, as we have seen again and again and again. Information regarding the original source of thi
No son, 60 minutes was the typical leftist press that took the lies of the Palis and ran with it. Is that all you have to say in defense of that? Pathetic. | Still in the practice of misrepresenting the situation solely to try and shore up your side of the argument Modi?
No Grunge but what you haven't noticed is that the world has taken the Pali story as factual, haven't they? They lined up in a gang to blast Israel for striking back against the Gaza Flotilla, didn't they?
Martin Luther King called you out didn't he? He said anti-zionism is anti-semetic in nature.
What are you going to bring to the table next? The UN resolutions against Israel, written up by such bastions of freedom such as Syria and Libya?
Bwahahahaha now go clean up your very racist nation because you have been guilty of ethnic cleansing and continual racism. Why were the Indians marching? Shall we show the beach riots?
No? Funny that a hypocrite such as you, living in such a land would be so bent on pointing a crooked finger at Israel. | MARTIN LUTHER KING ON ZIONISM
"Letter to an Anti-Zionist Friend"
"... You declare, my friend; that you do not hate the Jews, you are merely 'anti-Zionist'. And I say, let the truth ring forth from the high mountain tops, let it echo through the valleys of G-D's green earth: When people criticize Zionism, they mean Jews -- this is G-D's own truth.
"Anti-Semitism, the hatred of the Jewish people, has been and remains a blot on the soul of mankind. In this we are in full agree-ment. So know also this: anti-Zionist is inherently anti-Semitic, and ever will be so.
"Why is this? You know that Zionism is nothing less than the dream and ideal of the Jewish people returning to live in their own land. The Jewish people, the Scriptures tell us, once enjoyed a flourishing Commonwealth in the Holy Land. From this they were expelled by the Roman tryant, the same Romans who cruelly murdered our L-RD. Driven from their homeland, their nation in ashes, forced to wander the globe, the Jewish people time and again suffered the lash of whichever tyrant happened to rule over them.
"The Negro people, my friend, know what it is to suffer the torment of tyranny under rulers not of our choosing. Our brothers in Africa have begged, pleaded, requested -- DEMANDED -- the recognition and realization of our inborn right to live in peace under our own sovereignty in our own country.
"How easy it should be, for anyone who holds dear this inalienable right of all mankind, to understand and support the right of the Jewish People to live in their ancient Land of Israel. All men of good will exult in the fulfillment of G-D's promise, that His people should return in joy to rebuild their plundered land. This is Zionism, nothing more, nothing less.
"And what is anti-Zionist? It is the denial to the Jewish people of a fundamental right that we justly claim for the people of Africa and freely accord all other nations of the Globe. It is discrimination against Jews, my friend, because they are Jews. In short, it is anti-Semitism.
"The anti-Semite rejoices at any opportunity to vent his malice. The times have made it unpopular, in the West, to proclaim openly a hatred of the Jews. This being the case, the anti-Semite must constantly seek new forms and forums for his poison. How he must revel in the new masquerrade! He does not hate the Jews, he is just 'anti-Zionist'!
"My friend, I do not accuse you of deliberate anti-Semitism. I know you feel, as I do, a deep love of truth and justice and revulsion for racism, prejudice, and discrimination. But I know you have been misled -- as others have been -- into thinking you can be 'anti-Zionist' and yet remain true to those heartfelt principles that you and I share. Let my words echo in the depths of your soul: When people criticize Zionism, they mean Jews -- make no mistake about it."
Return to Studies Page
From M.L. King Jr., "Letter to an Anti-Zionist Friend,"
Saturday Review XLVII (August 1967), pg. 76
King knew exactly what was going on with people such as Grunge. Europe didn't want the Jews and that was quite obvious from the 2000 year history of murder, so the Jews go away to what is now Israel and what do they have? More Europeans chasing them with blood-stained fingers pointing in their direction. Get out of Australia Grunge. | "The Stolen Generations (also known as Stolen children) is a term used to describe the children of Australian Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander descent who were removed from their families by the Australian Federal and State government agencies and church missions, under acts of their respective parliaments. The removals occurred in the period between approximately 1869[1] and 1969,[2][3] although in some places children were still being taken in the 1970s."
"Racial violence in Australia is evident through various past and more recent events. Hate crimes and racial violence are not a new concept [1]
Initial instances include attacks against the indigenous population by settlers resulting in the deaths of thousands of Aboriginals, and devastating the indigenous population of Tasmania. [2] Violence against the Chinese community also occurred early in Australia’s history, with mobs attacking Chinese miners.[3]
Initially, in Australia's history, the White Australia policy resulted in a racially homogenous Australia. Post 1950’s multicultural Australia has seen an increase in racial violence, as different minorities endeavour to live together in the same communities. In some cases, this has led to violence instigated by newer ethnic groups, and in some cases, racial violence between non–anglo Australian ethnic groups. Racial violence also exists on a street level, with race based violence between different ethnic gangs. To a degree, racial violence has been exacerbated by the media and Politicians."
Remove the cedar from your eye before picking out the speck in Israel's.
Are you guilty of your own nation's misdeeds so think to soften it while you point out things about Israel? lol | Let this be proof that hatred of the Jews is still alive.
"The following is a list of United Nations resolutions that concern Israel and bordering states such as Lebanon. The UN has passed more resolutions condemning Israel than it has all other states combined."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_Nations_resolutions_concerning_Israel
Can you imagine with regimes such as Syria, Turkey, Egypt, Saudi Arabia,Iran, and a LONG list of others, that Israel has gotten more resolutions against it THAN ALL OTHER NATIONS COMBINED?
So take Grunge's concern with a grain of salt, as it can be seen that people will find any reason to hate Jews.
Where is the outcry over Turkey invading and occupying Cyprus? Is England still in Northern Ireland? Such filthy hypocrisy.
This is why the Bible says it will judge the nations. | UN Human Rights Commission Condemns Israel
Posted: May 9, 2003
For years, the United Nations Commission on Human Rights has singled out Israel for condemnation, while ignoring other countries guilty of serious human rights violations
Israel was once again the subject of condemnation by the highly politicized 53-nation U.N. Human Rights Commission during its annual six-week session from March 17 - April 23, 2003. Israel is not a member of the commission. Human rights groups have long been critical of the Commission for not dealing with some of the most egregious human rights abuses around the world. With members such as Cuba, Sudan, Syria and China, and under the Chairmanship of Libya, Human Rights Watch referred to this year's commission as an "abusers club" of governments who are hostile to human rights."
The UN is a racist and inept organization. What sort of credibility can you have with a list of abusers heading up the UN Human Rights Commission? That's why Israel doesn't care what the UN thinks, let alone someone sitting in the bush on his PC.
For years, the left has thrown these resolutions in Israel's face. Now, after the curtain has been pulled back on the Arab dictators acts, they will have to find another avenue to attack. Don't worry, they will. 2000 years of hatred doesn't die easily. | Look at Grunge use the famous Human Rights Council to attack Israel. Let's take a look at who is on the Council.
2009 Group[12]
* African States: Cameroon, Djibouti, Mauritius, Nigeria, and Senegal.
* Asian States: Bangladesh, China, Jordan, Malaysia, and Saudi Arabia.
* Eastern European States: Azerbaijan, and the Russian Federation.
* Latin American & Caribbean States: Cuba, Mexico, and Uruguay.
* Western European & Other States: Canada, Germany,Switzerland, and Turkey
Can you believe that Grunge would have the nerve to use what the above group produced? Can you believe they can actually sit at that table with many brutal nations and not feel like scumbags? Hahahahaha nice try Grunge.
Gee Grunge, that sure is some report that has teeth, eh? I mean we all know how freedom rings in Saudi Arabia, Cuba, and Turkey. Hilarious blunder. | Now no nation is perfect as we all know but is there a HUGE difference between Israel and the Palis? Yes there is.
Hamas charter anyone?
Does anyone know or care that the Palis were slaughtered in Jordan? Does anyone know they were kicked out of Jordan, Syria, and Lebanon for trying to overthrow their host governments?
Did anyone care about the Palis when Jordan had illegally annexed the land? Nope. Did anyone care about Gaza when Egypt controlled it? Nope.
Your bias is showing. | The left loves to use the term "disproportionate response" whenever Israel strikes back at it's enemies. It's all about equality, isn't it? With that in mind, I challenge Grunge to come up with a list to compare with mine.
3 Year old girl being asked who her enemies are and saying the Jews are apes and pigs on TV.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhbHVEGnYD8&feature=related
Small child quoting the Koran about the destruction of the Jews on a kids TV show.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSwpAX1xvrc&feature=related
Hamas' Children TV with a Terrorist Jew-Eating Rabbit
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eeii225G-HM&feature=related
Hamas Rabbit: Eat the Danes!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBhdFYRR5tI&feature=related
Hamas 'Mickey Mouse' Killed by 'Terrorist' Jews
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wiBwQ9fiho&feature=related
Hamas Children's TV Shows Boy Stabbing President Bush To Death
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUrAN5z7bm8&feature=related
Now Jews are supposed to think that they will have peace with these people when they teach their little ones from the cradle to hate them?
Find the equivalent Grunge or admit these people are not in any way ready for peace.
Go to the web and you can find countless examples of this stuff that most of the West ignores. Evil is evil and if you can't call it that, you are evil yourself. | Let's blame the Jews
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIesXORjBps
Now the man who posted this video is an Atheist who blasts Islam, Christianity, and other Atheists, each for their own hypocrisies. I watch all his videos, even if I don't like some.
Sometimes he is right about Christianity and shameful acts. I accept that. I also accept that he is right on the mark with the above video. He tells it like it is.
Only a weasel can live in the West and take the anti-Israel stance, and anyone using the racist UN "Human Rights" Council's decisions against it is not only a traitor to the West, but an out of the closet anti semite.
In fact the difference between Israel and its hateful neighbors is so stark that a blind man can see it. Go on with your charade, all the way to the pit, where the "worm dieth not," because that's exactly where you are heading. | America gets accused of supporting Israel like it's a bad thing. We do support Israel in vast numbers.
We also support South Korea. We also support Taiwan. Anyone have a problem with that except North Korea and China?
No, we support Israel because they are like us and want to be free from tyrannical governments and people who have murder on their mind.
Some Americans want us to pull our troops all around the world, including South Korea. They are a minority voice here. No, the rest of us realize that those people are free and they are contributing greatly to our civilization.
It's not about China and North Korea to us, its about Taiwan and South Korea.
We cheered to see a unified Germany! We wept when we saw the woman with the purple finger(showing she actually voted in her own Iraqi election.)
We were thrilled for the Russian people when the USSR collapsed.
We took in the Vietnamese boat people and our own citizens opened up their houses until they got on their feet, ready to support themselves in their new land.
Each and every country has warts and if you can't admit that, you are just lying to yourself. Every nation has done wrong.
I can tell you the people in America have good hearts as a whole. We can be at war with someone but cheer that same country when they get a democracy of their own.
We had a brutal war with Japan but we love them now that its over and we want them to succeed.
Is there any better example than West Germany/East Germany?
Overall, America has been benevolent as an empire compared to what we saw in the past from other empires. Yeah we have wars and disputes but if we were anything at all like what we are accused of being, the world would be a much darker place than it is now.
Now America is in its last days of empire and probably it is already over. Who will step up to the plate to fill the void? The UN? I laugh at that notion. We shall see if the next power that rises has you pining for the days that the USA was a force for stability in the world. | | Simple yes - no question Modi. If the American Indians rose up and took over your land and expelled lots of you to Canada and made the ones who were left in the USA give up their houses and move to ghettos, would you fight back with whatever means available, or would you just meekly accept that the people with the better claim to the land had taken it back? |
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