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| Author | Breaking news. Mercenaries' guild got changes.-3 |
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It seems you don't get 2 sp at first win on an army quest.
I just finished Army of necromancers {9} on first try and it only got me 3104 exp with 0,89 sp. https://www.lordswm.com/war.php?warid=696285662
Looks like the army needs to be a certain size and the cap seems to be 2 sp.
From the looks of it Army of elves and wizards {0} gave me 1019 exp and 0,67 sp https://www.lordswm.com/war.php?warid=696061307
So the new sp raise is very marginal and hardly worth mentioning.
Also by the lack of even an edit button for ones post shows how much we are appreciated either way. | for Lawton:
Let's take a typical T7 raid {20} for example.
According to the mechanism, the number of creatures goes:
The old pattern:
2 + 6 + 10 + 14 + 18 + 22 + 26 + 30 + 34 + 38 + 42 + 46 + 50 + 54 + 58 + 62 + 66 + 70 + 74 + 78 + 82 + 86 (22 waves) = 1042 creatures.
Now the new pattern: the # of waves is halved (11 waves), but the total # of creatures is unchanged and the waves remain constant for each wave:
1042 / 11 = 94 creatures per wave.
If you can defeat the original pattern (Meaning you are able to kill 86 creatures simultaneously), there is nothing wrong with the new pattern.
Considering the survival tournament when the waves were more or less the same difficulty (save the first wave). I can reach wave 11 without much difficulty, but wave 22 is just impossible. | for Corey:
If that's 1752 of them, the added new quest can now fully justify the loss if you play them to {25} on average. | Why not discuss some strategy of new MG instead?
That is what is being discussed now on .ru forum. After the 2nd change they simply stopped complaining.
Shame on us, especially on those whiners represented by AoD. | And to conclude, I have to say the admins have already compensated for the loss of points on monsters, be it 1752 or 4580.
What do you do for MG?
Answer: 1) Fun. 2) Elements. 3) Primary skill points
For 1), new introduced quests added to the fun, while camping for monsters would have destroyed the fun.
For 2), everybody sees that the element prices are falling, and they will be falling.
For 3), being argued and complained by most 'level campers' who felt 'unfair advantages of old players'. Take a look at the experience table:
LevelPtsBonus
00Meteorite shard, Toadstool
150new elements
2120+1 primary skill, new elements
3300new elements
4600+1 primary skill, up to 2 elements as a reward
51000Fern flowers
61500+1 primary skill
72200choice of 2 quests
83000+1 primary skill
94000+1 primary skill
105500+1 primary skill
117800+1 primary skill
1211000+1 primary skill
To get +5 skill points from MG, you need 4000 (was 5500), that compensated almost for the 1752 point loss.
To get +6 skill points from MG, you need 5500 (was 11000), that compensated almost for the 4580 point loss.
Not to mention level 11 and 12 are reachable with some effort. (see my calculation posted before) Yes you might be needing full art or enchanted art on this. But for those who get to reach HG11 or 12, I don't believe you all the way play it Min-APed. | especially on those whiners represented by AoD.
really there is no need to bring mc's into this...one person's point doesn't reflect the whole clan, surely all your mc members will not agree with you... | for Fallen Atheros:
AoD, not AnD | for Fallen Atheros:
she means aod(angel of death) not a&d. | as i believe, in first update admin do monster lvl increased by +3 lvel if win. it is a bad update. but after that they cut 3 factions adv over monster quest. which is a good update (even though i killed many monster using my inf, thats the reason my necro fsp is high :P ) gives some balance in all factions.
so after second monster update which remove some factions advantage why they keep first update ? i don't get it were is the exploitation now? actual exploitation was removed by second update.
rest all updates are perfect and i am happy about it, since i feel difficult to reach MG9 | for Poison Ivy:
That might be some loss. But as they give you extra skill points starting from MG8, I don't quite think they are likely to revert the changes on the 1st patch.
Or if, perhaps, they just reverted the 1st patch and cancelled the extra points for MG 9 and 11. Which do you like ? :))
As #85 I said by means of skill points you lose nothing absolutely. | | but they give more new quests..so i don't need to look over monster to get MG9 and MG10, for MG11 i don't have any plan now :P | Swiftgirl, that can't be seen as any form of compensation. The new skillpoint gaining also counts for those that had farmed the monsters, meaning they now got extra skillpoints added to them which was automatically pressed on attack according to the russian forum. So they benefitted from it.
I'm certain that the gap of the lost 4k MG points will be felt after a certain level.
I guess the +3 new monster system is nothing but protecting the ones on top and keeping them well fed so they'll always have an advantage over the ones that climb on later. Let me put it this way: if you open a restaurant where the water is free (this game) and anyone can sit without ordering anything as long as they want to (playing this game). Who would you cater to after a certain while? Exactly, to the ones that had ordered (this games donation system) as well.
We can argue all we want, but at the end of the day it still remains as a bussiness. | It's very interesting that people whining about being impossible to reach MG 12 while 99.9% of the players in the game won't even be close to MG 10
You guys worries too much, just move on and enjoy. Why not discuss some strategy of new MG instead?
What brings you to the game? Monster hunting?
Great Liuker, that is what I said. People complain about something that won't change their life that much. But the way they say it seems the game is dead and buried because of it. | | must be getting old,my apologies | Swift, all the new update features, such fsp, raid and others that you've mentioned, will also benefit old players, but the amount of points taken away from monsters, will not be bring to new players nor be removed for the old players.
Besides not only armies not gives that imaginary huge amount of fsp, but also with the fsp balance system, everyone will end with exactly same gap difference between them.
If you put the half energy to insult people, into trying give a good reason for this mutiply x3 feature from monster, making it sounds fair, we would have the best argument of the entire server. Drink some water, breath some air, find a man.
Corey, you're right about not reaching up to 30, but since the admins also implemented magic resistence, organic armor and another feature, it's already much more harder by default, meaning players will not be abled to hit an older value.
I have no doubt even with the old system reach MG 12 was a very difficult task, and whoever did, deserve a congratulations for that. But if the same folks tried again with this new system, they would probably be unable to reach MG 12 again.
The point is, it will be just harder to new players to reach new levels. This doesn't affect myself, actually it does very little against me, since I've no problem with camping. But if new players find this game too hard, they'll look something else, if middle players find it unfair change, they'll stop playing.
Then what? The server will lose ven more players and become even more desert, the problem is, without new players there will be no high level players to play with. It's like an imaginary country which forbidden parents to have kids and the entrey of foreign people. Eventually the adult people will turn old, and die, but there's no young generation to become adult and keep the cycle going.
If the admins hit new players, after a couple years, the old players will face empty waiting rooms.
Another problem is, this update did bring good features and one huge ugly bad one, if we do accept every bad feature that they throw on us, what they'll bring next? Since we already show, that we can take anything, without ask a different option.
They could've increase the number of points needed to level up MG, decrease the odds of finding a monster, or make monsters harder. (as they already did.)
But simply choose to remove points from new players, isn't a correct approach.
And eventually, after a couple years, the 'old, veteran players' will take the hit as well, and god I'm afraid to wonder what's gonna be the next update.
___
Anyways, I'm out of this topic. Eddy was right, debate on internet is a waste of time. Some players like corey, can have a good conversation, but there's some which are more worried by be controlled by primitive emotions to and 'defend' his beloved game, with their own lifes, instead of facing problems and asking for solutions. (Which by the way, isn't sad how parents, doesn't seems to care, about educate their childrens? Sad, really sad. As result, we've this damaged society.) | I have no doubt even with the old system reach MG 12 was a very difficult task, and whoever did, deserve a congratulations for that. But if the same folks tried again with this new system, they would probably be unable to reach MG 12 again.
but which system would help new players to reach MG 8 to MG 10 faster? Do you really think everyone loves to keep farming monsters?
Old MG system was like "OK I gotta keep hunting monsters just for getting that 1 extra stat". This is not game, this is job. I've had enough of that at work, I don't want that feeling at home.
New MG system can be like "Yeah I love those battles they are interesting and hey I can even get extra stats!". I don't know which one you like, but I know which one is healthier for this game.
MG is a very good original battle system of this game, it is interesting and reaching high levels require good strategy. However in the old system the bad exp/fsp ratio is the main disadvantage. If you climb too high in the MG ladder your ratio would become horrible. Also there are too few type of quests so you'll soon run out of quests except monsters.
Then level campers only exploit the monsters and simply pass by all other quests. This is not how you are supposed to play a game. If a game system encourages players to do boring stuff then it is flawed. Now admins did the right move (finally after so many years), try to accept it.
If you really find it difficult to accept this change, then I would say you don't really love this game, you just love numbers. | | Then level campers only exploit the monsters and simply pass by all other quests. This is not how you are supposed to play a game. If a game system encourages players to do boring stuff then it is flawed. Now admins did the right move (finally after so many years), try to accept it. | I always find it interesting how personally annoyed people seem to get by the comments posted by others, its like internet road rage.
Personally I think the changes are overall good, though the negative changes to monster quests was a double whammy that went a bit far. Not that fussed, its not like I do so many merc quests as to be an issue when there are that many monsters. I think they came in with the original intention of people skip all others and do just monsters, because ratio is rubbish elsewhere after a comparatively short time. Therefore make monsters harder and improve others. The risk now is that with the significant increase in monster difficulty it ends up as do all others and skip monsters.
In practice they have said they system for which quest you are offered will be based upon what other people successfully manage to do, so therefore hopefully you will mostly get doable quests and so low skipping rate. Should balance out the faff factor with merc.
As for fairness to old vs new players. I think people forget what fair really means. Fair is simply treating people the same - short of bans and cheating this is always teh case as we have to follow the game dynamics. The issue with this is a different opinion on what the same is. It is obviously impossible to have a functional system where the rules change after a certain number of battles (therefore any change made more difficult "hurt" newer players compared to old). Equally it is not functional to give extra points based on previous battles on the old system (therefore changes made easier "hurt" older players compared to new). All that is functional is to change what is less balanced and make it better - then everyone has the same from that time onwards, and before. In practice it makes little odds as the growth curve of most people is comparable. Such that that people have experienced sufficiently similar game rules in the past to mean the statistical significance of any advantageous or deliterious change is minimal. Of course if you level super fast or slow this is less true.
Finally if you think something is bad, you are unlikely to see a resolution from a "change it back" stagnant attitude. suggest something in the middle.
Personally I think the monster increase should be 2 levels not 3. Not such an extreme amount. Better a tweak and a re-tweak when more data is in than very significant changes that could be overkill.
At the end of the day, they will make their own judgement based primarily on the debates from the .ru server. I only hope they have eloquent and constructive people on their to balance out the inevitable noise from people overly extreme in their opinions and conversation style. | I said I don't want to keep the track of this topic, but then you make me a directly question. Oh well, I guess we couldn't have everything, but I'm seriously I would be glady if I could just bury this one.
I'll answer your question with another one, why do we need to have a bad new feature in order to enjoy good ones? Definitely double MG tracks and new quest is always good to everyone, new or old player, only enhances game overall expenrience as you've made your own speech based upon it.
The thing is, we could ask for an non wanted feature not be implemented, this has nothing to do with the good ones. As you said, this is a game not a job, there's no reason for we being punished, it's like someone want to eat a piece of pie, but had to eat worms firstly, or drive an car, but needs to run until pass out, why not have only good new features instead, and skip all the madness?
As for make monsters less significant, they could've raised the levels of MG to 14, and implement other kind of missions, so the new players won't be punished and old players would have something new to have a track of. Everyone wins on this scenario.
Nobody in here is complaing about the good updates, only a very specific one.
Besides it's not about the 'whinners' it's about the game survival, you cannot hit the core of any structure and hope it keeps stable, also it would be weird if they keep throwing bad updates, and we suddely hope the next one bring any good, since they're used to do the same thing over and over.
If the russian community haven't complained, we probably won't get any extra mission at all, which would make your currently argument inexistent. Ironicaly you own your thanks, to those you've made your argument against, the 'complainers.' | |
This topic is long since last update and considered obsolete for further discussions.
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