| Author | Correction to the MT++ news post |
|---|
Hi all,
I'd like to note a correction to the conditions for receiving medals (achievements) in this Minor Tournament.
The 80% and 90% percentile wording in the news is incorrect. The actual conditions are:
- To receive a gold medal, your win rate must be 90% or more of the win rate of the winner (and you need to notch 15 wins of course).
- To receive a silver medal, your win rate must be 80% or more of the win rate of the winner (and you need 15 wins).
Please accept my apologies for this inaccuracy. |
| If you think this should also be re-posted in a more prominent forum section, please feel free to do so. Thanks! |
I forgot to add this is also faction-specific.
For example, player A wins 15 out of 17 as a Dark Elf.
Player B wins 15 out of 18 as a Dark Elf.
Player C wins 15 out of 19 as a Dark Elf.
Player D wins 15 out of 20 as a Dark Elf.
Player E wins 15 out of 21 as a Dark Elf.
Player F wins 15 out of 22 as a Dark Elf.
A and B will receive gold.
Ñ, D and E will receive silver.
E will receive bronze.
And the same for every faction, separately. |
Player A wins gold?
That's 88% win ratio |
| That is correct. Their win rate is 88.89%, but it's 100% of the winner's rate, which is their own. |
15 wins with a faction and a win ratio that is above the 90th percentile among all tournament.
That sounds pretty clear to me and the meaning is the same as what you posted. Percentile is the word you're looking for. |
I copied partial sentence from Empire's post in #6, below is the complete statement:
To get gold medal:
15 wins with a faction and a win ratio that is above the 90th percentile among all tournament players for the same faction and combat level.
Sounds good to me. |
**Percentiles** are a completely different statistics concept, and that is not how the medals in this tournament work.
90th percentile refers to the top one-tenth of all participants. For example, if 1500 students took the same standardized test, the 90% percentile would be the 150 students with the top scores.
The rules of the tourney, however, operate with pure percentages, not percentiles.
Trust me. I have a Math degree. |
And in case you're interested in how this inaccuracy ended up in the news post:
This portion of the Russian news was copy-pasted from the previous MT news from Dec 2022. I wasn't given the chance to check the accuracy of the translation.
I will make sure to get the complete Russian source text next time and ensure that the translation is 100% accurate. And that's 100%, not the 100th percentile :) |
Yea SirReal is correct, just to paraphrase what he has said: The top player for a faction and level gets an X % win rate. Everyone within 0.9X to X win rate will be awarded gold. Everyone within 0.8X to 0.9X win rate will be awarded a silver.
virtual_vitrea, the statement can be coherent but the actual meaning may not be true. |
the 90% percentile would be the 150 students with the top scores.
That is correct. I assumed that is how it has always worked. However, upon reconsidering the facts, I have to say you are correct to make this post. If the game were indeed meant percentiles, then there should be an equal number of people with gold and silver medals. We know this isn't true. That is all the proof I need to say that we need to correct the translation.
You don't have to tell me you have a math degree for this argument. This isn't advanced math. But I want you to understand that as far back as I remember, we have always been told that the medals were divvied by percentiles, and before your post, I haven't tried to verify this statement. Hence the mistake. But I'm glad you did, so thank you. |
But I want you to understand that as far back as I remember, we have always been told that the medals were divvied by percentiles
I understand that and I sympathize. Please accept my apologies for my argumentative tone yesterday.
I'm back after a 2-year hiatus to make sure that our .com community gets the best treatment possible, which at a minimum includes accurate and timely translation. I can only do so much, but I'm committed to this cause.
By the way, I'm a pro translator but I'm only one person, so I could use some help with the translations. If you think you can contribute or you know anyone who might be able to, please DM me. Thank you! |
for SirReal:
How do the translators in this game operate? And what sort of translators do you need? I'm thinking there are two kinds:
A. Someone who understands both Russian and English- I reckon these people are probably rare but obviously best suited for this type of work. Especially if they are adept at writing in English without grammatical mistakes.
B. Those who don't understand Russian but rely on online translation software or google translate to convert Russian to English. Following the initial translation, they should be able to correct the English text for grammar. Of course, this kind will rely on their own interpretation which can sometimes produce superior results but more often than not, it will be a less precise representation of the original Russian.
Most English-speaking players can take over the role of type B, if that works for you then I suggest making a separate thread stating your need and I think you will have your pick because people will apply. |
Yep, I will make a dedicated post about that soon. Stay tuned :)
To answer your question, A. is a rare breed. Simply speaking both languages doesn't make one a translator -- same as having ten fingers doesn't make one a pianist. That said, volunteers are welcome to give it a shot and I'm willing to help them get better at translation if they're interested and committed.
B. are easier to find, but the usefulness of their involvement is very limited because machine translation and AI software has become so good lately. DeepL can produce better results than just about any non-translator. The main use we can get out of people like B is their knowledge of game lore and game terminology, which of course no machine translation software possesses. |
Yes this is where the problem arises in this and many other examples. Back years ago all the texts were translated using Google translate and English speakers edit the output to make it readable and flow in English. However if Google says its percentile then we trusted it I guess.
Then the problem is that most of the events battle description are copy pasted from the last one, only the story is translated each time. It would definitely be a good idea to check through all battle descriptions for events to make sure they accurately describe reality. The story doesn't matter too much if there are small discrepancies between the two servers in my opinion |
Simply speaking both languages doesn't make one a translator -- same as having ten fingers doesn't make one a pianist. That said, volunteers are welcome to give it a shot and I'm willing to help them get better at translation if they're interested and committed.
I suppose it is not easy to work with you based on reading that.
Yes, having ten fingers doesn't make you a pianist. But understanding of multiple languages, both verbal and written, puts you in a good spot for translating things from one language to another. People who live in a primarily english speaking country, like me for example, are highly likely to have decade(s) of experience writing in english. I myself don't know any Russian, but I'm pretty confident I could produce moderate to high quality of translated work if I did know that language, and wanted to help.
I re-read your second sentence, and it really implies that you are looking for someone who is serious and committed to the translation job. May be this game today is not really the kind of place for that level of expectation you have. It feels rather too unrealistic that I might have assumed you were being silly. But I know you meant it, being able to see that you are proud of your job as a pro translator. What you need is multiple volunteer translators who can share the workload to reliably provide results. I would say it needs to be a more easy going thing than you are currently expecting if you want them to continue to work with you for longer periods. |
Yes this is where the problem arises in this and many other examples. Back years ago all the texts were translated using Google translate and English speakers edit the output to make it readable and flow in English. However if Google says its percentile then we trusted it I guess.
This.
You build on what was done for years and try to do it the best you can. Over the years, there are more tools to improve it but it remains unrealistic to expect it to always be perfect.
Many players on the team, like Merlin, Kunoichi and me (Mellor/vicky) did/do it in the meantime to help the .com community as much as possible. Many have tried and give up after a while because of the hard/constant work.
What you need is multiple volunteer translators who can share the workload to reliably provide results. I would say it needs to be a more easy going thing than you are currently expecting if you want them to continue to work with you for longer periods.
No, a volunteer will not feel welcome if everything needs to be perfect (trust me). I was a volunteer and resigned after 2 years and 3 months. It if needs to be perfect they need to hire official translators (multiple).
The pressure is high, many texts have to be adapted, admins are often only ready with texts last minute and things have to be done last-minute on a regular basis. Constantly being available on skype to jump in as quickly as possible.
Admins have to choose, if they want the texts to be perfect they have to get official help (several guys like SirReal). If they want to continue like the last 3 years (with volunteers), they have to be able to cope with the fact that the quality will not always be 100%.
Apart from SirReal, there is no one doing this as a job. I respect his work, its good, its better then mine. But we differ too much as volunteer/pro to work nicely together. This combo does not work.
To new members, please don't do it for the gold. That's not the right motivation. Do it to help .com translate texts, fix bugs, edit the "about the game section" and try to get .com involved as much as possible.
I've always enjoyed doing it. I hope SirReal finds a person A who sees fit to do this long term but to be honest I fear so. |
You're right that my expectations are high. I value quality, and I hope the .com community will appreciate the benefits of this approach.
Most professions are misunderstood by outsiders, and the translator's job is no exception. Language knowledge is obviously necessary to translate well, but it is by no means sufficient. Translators train for years to become good, and they never stop learning throughout their careers.
I don't know what line of work you're in, but I imagine you're good at what you do and you know what it takes to become good. You know the difference between an amateur and a pro. You know when that amateur level is acceptable and when you must have pros do it. So do I.
Let's just draw a couple more analogies. If I have a pair of scissors, can I be a hairdresser? I mean, sure, I can cut your hair; it just won't look very good. You wouldn't pay me money to cut your hair. In fact, knowing that I have no experience, you probably wouldn't want me to go anywhere near your hair :)
I can cook for myself, but could I work as a restaurant chef?
I have driven twenty different car models in my life. Does that mean I would be able to do a mechanic's job?
I have seen a thousand movies. Would I make a good movie director?
My point is that I'm ready to help those who want to get better as translators. You won't find that everywhere. |
| What Arcanide said is very true. The game developers see very little value in the .com community, they invest close to zero effort in it, and they do nothing to help translators do their job well. It's a very sad state of affairs. I have tried to influence this before and I will try again. I cannot promise anything, but I will do my best. |
| Topic moved from "Tournaments" to "General game forum". |
