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| Author | Solution to the "problem." |
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All I see are people complaining about the economic problems. Perhaps if I relate this to a real-world economy you may understand how to deal with this; considering how this economy mimics an efficient free market.
To solve the problem, simply stop panicking. Widespread recession, which can lead to an economic depression, is caused by mass consumer panic. People become afraid to spend money (gold in this case); fearing that they will never have enough to survive. What you should really do is spend moderately and perhaps cut down on things you don't need. Stop playing roulette and do not bet in the Tavern when you cannot afford it. You might even have to pass-up low paying Merc Missions. Really want that full-arts set? Well too bad. You're going to have to stick with what you can get.
The fact that other people have the time and are willing to contribute the effort to earn enough gold to afford full arts should not be discouraging. Even before the change these people were better off than you. Complaining wont change that. Playing more will help; but not any more or less than you would have to before the AP limit.
As for people accusing others of "hoarding," just lay-off the subject. They are the ones running the economy. You want what they have you follow their terms. If you don't want to, you're going to have to start collecting resources on your own. Also, no one has presented proof of "hoarding." Perhaps in basic resources (wood, ore, etc..) but certainly not in machined goods. Those with plenty basic resources are probably selling them and making good money on them. Perhaps it's time that those who complain should invest in these resources. I would imagine, over time, you would be exactly one of those people you are complaining about all the time.
In short, stop complaining and work harder. In reality the only thing that widens the gap between the rich and the poor is the panic and stubbornness of players who do not want to contribute more effort in the game. | | Well said. | As I see it we have full employment and a strong inflation (stopped only by fixed prices at the facilities and caps at the market), that's not what I call a depression. In addition most goods don't exactly stack in the facilities.
However I agree with your conclusions (though I doubt the definition of panic allows to simply stop it willfully).
I might add that some people simply don't plan their character well, being combat level 6 and LG 1 is just not a smart thing to be. | ???? "Solution to the Problem" ???? You have offered no such thing. You have also ignored half the argument.
The fact is cartels ignore market economics. Cartels are either illegal or restricted in most market economies, and it is cartels that you are defending!!!!
Some resources are easy to get, others are difficult and must be pursued by most at the market at an inflated price.
Other resources like magic powder are scarce AND cannot be purchased at the market. Magic Powder for example is a basic requirement for spellcasting based heroe's artifacts eg battlestaff. A battlestaff is a basic item, and not some uber super tough artifact that requires a year of questing to achieve.
Last time I checked 7 units of magic powder was produced per hour and was snapped up in less than a second. Now except for the buyer (and perhaps private trader) that resource will never be available.
Now there are some issues about economics in the game but there is also an issue of broken mechanics in the game. A caster based hero should have the same or similar EASE of purchasing suitable artifacts as an offense based hero has.
At the moment that is not possible.
Cheers | You may not engage in combat. Ammunition is not matched, 5 AP required.
:( | Sorry, but it doesn't work that way.
If everybody hoards, the system shuts down. That's because there's more gold out there than there are resources to buy (or at least there were). The solution is not "you should hoard too". That just makes the problem worse.
The admins just put half the solution into play (not my preferred method, but it'll work). | the easiest way to at least ease the problem would be to cap how much you can sell the basic resources for on the market. say you buy mercury for 369 in BG. if the admin cap it so you can only sell the resource for +1 what you paid for it. that way when machining and production facilities are low on the necessary resources to make them operate a player could buy the resource from the market and sell it to the facilities and either break even or make +1 gold. that gives less of an incentive for those who have been camping the mines to buy out all the resources and allows the players to keep the machining and production facilities operational without having to lose money by buying overpriced resources from the market.
this is not unprecedented. Here in the States gasoline would be a good example. gas stations are not allowed to sell for too little or too much over the cost of the product. you see slight variations (usually a few pennies) between cities but otherwise the price is standardized and only fluctuates with price of crude. so say i buy my mercury for 369. if i wanted to sell on market the max i could sell for would be 372 (which is +1 the cost of mercury in GC) now if somebody else needed to stock the nickel works they could buy for 372 and sell it to the nickel works for 372 costing the buyer nothing in the end.
The seller still makes a profit and the buyer lost nothing and the nickel works got the necessary resources to continue production. this would however would only work by tossing out the tax (i propose only dropping the market tax on standard resources and keeping the tax for all other items ie: weapons, elements, etc)
it would end price gouging on the resources, which are essential to keeping the majority of facilities operational and the overall game economy healthy. | First of all: ipsIne, well said. I try to answer in a fitting manner, but english isn't my native language, so I'm trying hard to get the point.
The game economy cannot be totally compared with the real economy, because it lacks one solution: Revolution. We cannot throw out the admins. :) We cannot hang up players like fusei, who make profit out of the situation. :)
There are to ways: We get rid of the problem ourselves, that's the way you suggest. The details for that plan could be to work harder, don't be jealous to the rich players, live with the things one can get out of the game.
The other way: Build up pressure to the admins. Like others do, when they yell "Fill up the ressources". There is a critical point, because this game lives from donations, it cannot exist anymore, when more players leave and no one donates for diamonds. I think, the admins and creative heads behind the game want us to deal with a constant ressource shortage. Otherwise, as already said, ressources would be available without limits. Oh, how lame this would be. The economy crisis has brought more live in the game than the dragon hunts. Emotions, hate, jealousy.
So the admins will follow their way of giving us just enough ressources to exist, until no one plays this game anymore. People like me, who have reached a relatively high level, can deal with the shortage. With LG 4 or maybe 5 it's not a problem to fit the AP minimum or buy ressources at market. Yeah, I'm sure, I won't be anytime as rich as Georgia or Hatred, but it doesn't stop me from enjoying the game.
So, to get a point: Stop gaming (that's the only way to build up pressure against admins, who are the only one who can fill up facilities) or:
WORK TOGETHER. You have enough money to buy everything? Then buy all mercury and sell it with little profit to those, who need it badly. Be a saint, be a polpular character, who shares with the poor! Be a legend of LWM, one of the ones, who got the rest out of the crisis.
Otherwise: Stop complaining, better stop gaming. There are no other ways. | I have to say one thing: The problems here are at least a bit similar to the problems of the real world: The rich aren't willing to divide. And no one of the players here with 500,000 gold or more will follow my suggestion to support the poor. Just egomanism and pride.
And something sad about it: When we don't solve problems like this in a GAME WORLD, how we should solve them in the REAL WORLD?!
Oh, you humans... | Hmm. Firstly, people have evry right to discuss things, even if this means criticism is involved. This Empire is not a dictatorship, is it?
Also...
As for people accusing others of "hoarding," just lay-off the subject. They are the ones running the economy. You want what they have you follow their terms.
I disagree totally. This has nothing to do with the concept of supply and demand at all, and makes a mockery of the term 'free economy'.
I have no idea what the solution is, but it certainly doesn't involve preying on our fellow players' needs. I look forward to more discussion...sorry, complaining...until people eventually understand that greed provides only temporary benefits to a few, whereas co-operation will benefit everybody. | How come I wasn't mentioned in your richlist...lol
I have quite a nice wealth too. Plus I'm one of the unsung heroes who tries to keep the facilities alive. Unfortunately because of the people buying to sell for big profit on the market I am starting to hoard my supplies for leaner times.
As for people not being able to get resources I don't have 'too' much trouble. My speed is slow as I ping'ed the server and it showed my speed as 363ms and I believe some people are getting as low as 40ms but I STILL get resources if I'm willing to put the time in.
Some people can't be bothered and spend more time complaining than trying.
The only thing I don't like about the game is the double hunting, the rest is fun and I still enjoy it. | @10: The Empire IS at least an aristocraty, if not a dictatorship. Admins reign and you can do nothing about it but to give complains and ideas. That's natural for an online game. Surely every dictatorship has to hear sometimes the people, or a revolution will start.
In this case, revolution would be hacking the server, threatening the admins in their real live or stop gaming and boycott the game. To be sure, that I am understood right: I don't encourage people to do such things. | | @11: So you have more than 500,000 gp. What are you planning to do with this gold? Be the richest player around? You seem to have enough ressources and gold to stay out 20 economy crisises. What's your sense of getting wealthier and richer? | @13: It's just the way it's happened, I never planned to have so much gold but I can't spend it all as I don't fight that much and am not going to give it away as that would be silly. I've worked a lot but not spent much on arts and I've just ended up with a load of gold. I don't waste it on arts I don't need and don't waste it gambling silly amounts on roulette.
Everytime I come across a facility that is out of a certain resource I sell a couple to it to keep other people in work.
I might aswell make my gold work for me as I normally don't even bother having any resource at all but it seems we need to keep some now because of the market traders. | It's at least good that you try to get people in work. Better than make profit, profit, profit... Which is silly, because you can't buy houses or fancy cars here. You only have a bigger number in your profil and some people are jelous.
But what hinders you to sell ressources to newcomer players, make 1 gold profit per ressource and help them to enjoy the game more?
I don't expect you to give away your gold as a present.
In Germany we have a paragraph in our constitution, which I like, even if it's not enforcecable: Estate pledges the owner. So the spirit is: If you have enough to live, you should share a bit with community.
Maybe I would ask you for a loan, when I am ready with my thieves guild level 2. Then I divide this money under trusted persons and buy ressources. Would you say "Yes"? | I see other players give loans and was told you need a licence to loan gold. So I have asked the secretary/admin for a licence to lend and have heard no reply. So yes, I would loan gold if I got a licence but then I would need collateral to give a loan and interest on payment of the loan for doing so until I knew I could trust someone fully.
I have seen people charge 50 percent for 1 week which is too greedy and I wouldn't charge anywhere near that amount because I don't need to make loads of profit like some people. I earn enough to play the game and the rest is just sat there doing nothing. Would be nice to be able to buy a fancy house and 'chariot' though....lol | In short, stop complaining and work harder. In reality the only thing that widens the gap between the rich and the poor is the panic and stubbornness of players who do not want to contribute more effort in the game
agree.
At least by keep enrolling in mines (the lowest wage rate) and letting those low levels in Laborer's Guild have works in facilities with high payment will help more ppl. but still, yeah...you know it...not many ppl are willing to do that.
Oh, you humans...
well said :) | At least by keep enrolling in mines (the lowest wage rate) and letting those low levels in Laborer's Guild have works in facilities with high payment will help more ppl. but still, yeah...you know it...not many ppl are willing to do that.
mm, i do that
because im too lazy checking production & machining
usually i just click the 'last work location: ore pit' :p | mm, i do that
Glad to hear that :)
We need more of such players here | fusei ~ I might add that some people simply don't plan their character well]
This is also a good point. Many people begin this game forgetting about work; or figure it isn't worth their time (as LG levels are so far apart). If you find yourself unable to battle and this game is worth it to you enough to complain, perhaps it's time you play another game while, every hour or so, you just log in and apply for work. Get your Labor level up and a good stockpile of gold and come back in a week or so. If this game is NOT that important to you, than why waste your time complaining?
Ravensclaw ~ it is cartels that you are defending
Exactly. Though I don't know why you claim cartels are illegal. Last I checked there was nothing in the TOS, rules, etc... that states this. Within the economy of this game they are legal and present. In fact, without them this economy would not have guaranteed stability. For example, if cartels were illegal and a majority of the players were lazy for one week there would be no place to work. The basic resource producers would not have the gold for workers, the machined goods producers would not have the resources OR gold, and so on.
However the above is considering the original state of this economic set up. Currently there are too many players so work is relatively scarce and there are not enough facilities to produce the amount of goods to accommodate everyone. In fact, this is the only problem causing all of this humdrum. In my opinion the only thing that the devs could do to fix this would be opening more facilities for various resources... and perhaps even arts that are not yet on the map.
A caster based hero should have the same or similar EASE of purchasing suitable artifacts as an offense based hero has.
I'm inclined to disagree. For one thing, the only Caster hero is Wizard. Dark Elf is hindered in the casting area specifically because of its strong melee units. Wizards already have the advantage of mini-arts; albeit an expensive advantage. A Wizard decked out in your basic "fighter" arts will still have the advantage of strong magic. At most levels their units alone can put up a fight. The extra 200-some damage from their hero every turn is more than enough to balance the game. Having a Caster set only shifts power from your troops to your hero... keeping in the same relative balance.
You have offered no such thing. You have also ignored half the argument.
I was hoping the word "problem" in quotation marks would suggest facetiousness. The idea is that the so-called problem is just an over-exaggeration of players who want this game to be as easy as it was before. I only refer to those complaining that it is too difficult to get gold and that resources are too scarce. And to that effect, I should point out that I am not ignoring any other arguments... I am simply focusing on a single argument. At no point would I discredit many of the other arguments I have seen regarding the change. There are indeed things that could use some tweaking... it is just not as bad as people seem to think it is.
urgone ~ The solution is not "you should hoard too". That just makes the problem worse.
That is not what I am advocating. When I say that perhaps you should hoard too; I am using that to combat those complaining that someone is hoarding. I do not personally advocate it. Rather, I am suggesting that one should not complain about what they cannot change and instead join those who are successful. There is no shame in taking after another successful person.
Also, hoarding is not the problem. No one is or has been hoarding. People earn gold and they spend gold. The people who have plenty of gold are the ones who spend in moderation and only on what they need. This is the solution that I was trying to push. Not so much on the hoarding bit.
xinj ~ the easi |
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