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| Author | Missing Spells of Nature |
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From beginning of the Game I am sad about the missing Naturespells. The Naturemagic seems to be senseless untill the 3rd Mages Guild is build (except for Necros).
Magic Punch is Expensive and weak.
Waspswarm is weak and doesn't work on many Creatures!
Raise dead destroys the Moral of your troops.
Summon phantom is the ultimativ spell if the phantom lives long enough...
Noone (Except some Necros) uses Nature Magic. Only in cases of having too much Mana, a Magic Punsh is casted. It seems to be a wasted spell-branch.
Even the Talent-weel shows the missing interest in that kind of Magic. (only 4 possible talents??!)
That is why I beg you, to create some new Spells and Talents for this lost branch.
For example:
Fire Trap (HoMM5)
Cost: 8
Places 2/4/6/8 Mines randomly in a chosen 5x5 area, invisible for the enemy. Blowing up once for ???+???*Spellpower Damage.
Chaos/Nature/Holy/Dark Magic Ward (HoMM4)
Cost: 10
Grants a target of the spell 10/20/40/60% resistance to the specific branch of magic.
Banish (HoMM4)
Cost: 5
Destroys a number of summoned (even raised or gated) Creatures. 30+10/40+11/50+12/60+13*Spellpower (f.ex.)
Would be cool, if you'd think about my suggestion and give a reply about you thoughts.
Thanks! | Magic Punch is Expensive and weak.
It's not very expensive, and it's good if you are a magic based character looking to deal just enough damage to something. It can really be a life-saver for lower levels who can't deal so much damage with their hero's attack. But certainly not the best Nature Spell.
Waspswarm is weak and doesn't work on many Creatures!
Wasp Swarm is an amazing spell. And the only creatures it doesn't work on are golems, gargs and undead. I have used it many times, and in most hunts it is the only spell I do use. Basic Nature magic, which is a requirement to Summon Phantoms, only makes this spell better.
Raise dead destroys the Moral of your troops.
True, but if you're not a Necromancer you have no business raising the dead in the first place. Either way, this spell has also saved me on many an occasion; of course towards the end of a battle. Anyone who says this is a useless spell has had no experience with it whatsoever.
Summon phantom is the ultimativ spell if the phantom lives long enough...
This is a great spell, but it costs too much to make it the "ultimate" spell. It costs 18 mana to cast--which leaves little room for later spells--and it requires Basic Nature Magic... a 9 point talent for Elves. However, it does greatly increase effectiveness of your army during hunts and most Mercenary Missions... however it is fairly useless for PvP and Caravans.
Noone (Except some Necros) uses Nature Magic [...] It seems to be a wasted spell-branch.
This statement shows that you have no idea what you are talking about. Nature Magic is imperative to level 10+ Elves and to Wizards. A Wizard that can raise is very powerful. Their longest surviving units do not get a morale penalty. And Wasp Swarm is better than most spells in the Holy Magic Schools when used with no talent.
Even the Talent-weel shows the missing interest in that kind of Magic.
It is a bit stunted, but need there needn't be any more than there are.
Your suggestions aren't useful in this game.
Fire Trap would be obsolete by the time it became useful, and to buff it more than it was in HoMM would make it over-powered in the scale of this game.
Magic Ward would be a huge waste of talent points. Not enough magic is used in LoWM to be worth it. Stick with Mithril arts if you're worried about getting hit by spells; or switch to barbarian.
Banish is also useless. Demons rarely gate more than 30 units in a stack, Necros have low enough defense to not have their units be banished after they raise, and Summoned creatures are too easy to kill and would be a waste of mana to Banish. Not to mention, in all of the above, there are few cases when so many units are in a stack to make having a higher talent just to use Banish.
This game is not on the scale that HoMM is on... which is very likely why many spells have been left out. | Now it becomes a discussion.
Magic Punch is Expensive and weak.
It IS! You just cast it, because you have no other choise. If you had magic Arrow, you'd cast that (4mana and more Dmg)
Wasp Swarm is an amazing spell.
It is, because of its stunning efect, but you need to wast a lot of talentpoints untill it becomes effectiv...
This statement shows that you have no idea what you are talking about.
Is that so?! Hail, to the wise clairvoyant...
(please stay within the topic and unperonal)
Nature Magic is imperative to level 10+ Elves and to Wizards.
Iteresting! You are the first elf, I met, that took Nature-Magic. And you are right! after reaching level 10 => Mages guild level 3 => spontanoulsly many elves become mages and choose "basic nature magic"...
Of course it is because of the mighty Magic punch and the enormous advantage Wasp Swarms -0,2Points on the ATB and NOT because of the other two spells...
Sorry, but I do still think that there is a reason, why noone takes Naturemagic (untill level 10/Magesguild level 3)
Fire Trap would be obsolete by the time it became useful
Hmm... My experiance are different. Exspecially the chance to interrupt creatures movement made it a great spell. But I agree, it could be overpowered, if you take it, without changing it, as it is given in HoMM5.
(thats the reason for this thread: Discuss!)
Banish is also useless.
Maybe! But I do not share your opinion. I think it would bring more interesting features into this game. Problematic for me is, that it could become de-balancing, because of the great advantage against Necros and Deamons. | Oh! I forgot something!
Naturemagic can realy be very usefull, because you do not need (much) spellpower. All effects depend mainly on your Talent-skill. | There are magic guilds 4 and 5 yet to be introduced. With them - new spells.
The game is balanced on levels 10- so I don't think extra low-level spells will be added.
Speaking of Nature magic - I find it quite useful. Raise dead is very nice, as is Swarm. Magic Punch is quite useful, too, especially when you need to finish a MR creature quickly.
It all comes down to using it the right way. Of course, there's nothing wrong with having a 0/0 kn/sp elf :) | Now it becomes a discussion.
It is only a discussion when you do not reiterate the same point ;)
You just cast it, because you have no other choise.
If I had no choice I would not waste mana on it. I do agree it's not all that useful, but if you are a magic based character (which an Elf can be at later levels) Magic Punch is the most powerful Magic attack they will have, that can hit anything immune to magic. If I have 50 mana and 3 or more spell power, and I need to do damage fast, I will use a Magic Punch. Granted, if I were at that point I would Swarm if I thought I could get a turn in with some other unit. Still, like every spell, Magic Punch if situational. Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating it... I'm just defending against the "useless" accusation.
but you need to wast a lot of talentpoints untill it becomes effectiv
No talent points need to be wasted for Wasp Swarm. I have used it with moderate effectiveness with no Nature talents. And now that I'm level 10, I will have to have Basic Nature to Summon; which makes the spell 100% better. In fact, this is the spell I cast the most in hunts, Merc missions, and even PvP.
Is that so?! Hail, to the wise clairvoyant...
(please stay within the topic and unperonal)
You sarcasm wouldn't necessarily be on topic either now would it? ;)
Iteresting! You are the first elf, I met, that took Nature-Magic. [...] Of course it is because of the mighty Magic punch [...] and Wasp Swarms [...] and NOT because of the other two spells...
Sarcasm noted. Remember, I am defending this quote of yours: Noone (Except some Necros) uses Nature Magic [...] It seems to be a wasted spell-branch. I was not defending the individual spells. Oh, and yes I do take interest in Nature Magic specifically for Wasp Swarm :) Summon Phantom is a mere bonus. At a cost of 18 mana it is a once-per-battle spell; and useless in ranged hunts, PvP, Caravans, and some Merc missions. Which only leaves melee hunts and melee based Mercenary missions.
You're right, there is no reason to take up Nature Magic before level 10! In-fact, there's no reason to take up Chaos, Darkness or Holy magic for any faction other than Wizard (which is still not a great idea) until you are at least level 8... and even then they are fairly useless. Level 10 is really the point at which one should choose whether they want to be magic-based or not.
Fire Trap
I'm sorry if my point wasn't clear. The damage Fire Trap would do would not be a worthy spell to cast compared to Lightning from a Wizard or even Disruption Ray from DE. Yes, at that point in the game when those Lords have those spells... Fire Trap would be powerful... but not worth as much as a single massive damage attack (lightning) or a permanent drop in defense (disruption ray). It also has too great of a chance to backfire (what if those traps are never triggered?) for it's cost. | Banish
I cannot see Banish becoming de-balancing. Can a demon not re-gate their units? And can a Necro not just raise again?
If you're going to kill off a raised Necro stack, you should have the units to do it. If you don't, you will lose anyways. If it's a raised stack of ghosts, a simple Lightning, even from a Druid, should be more than enough.
And if you want to Banish a gated stack, that stack can just re-gate on its next turn. If you didn't manage to damage that stack before it gated, you wont be able to damage that stack before it gates again; as per the flow of battle. | | Never seen much point in Wasp Swarm...doesn't it only affect .2 Initiative, or thereabouts? Am I misreading how it works? | You are the first elf, I met, that took Nature-Magic
yup, the first elf i've met that takes nature magic
Holy magic, imo, is better than nature magic... nature magic, imo again, is most beneficial to necros, but not elves | Magic Punch is Expensive and weak.
see its not weak at all, if you compare heroes can only do damage less than 15 before they are level 5, so magic caster can do a lot of damage, 20 damage in one shot, with no spell power, what more if they have spell power, | for urgone:
It doesn't effect their initiative at all. It just has a knockback effect like a Barbarian's stun. It just moves them back on the turn bar by .2 turns. This will more often then not give at least one of your units a turn before them. Even with no talent, .1 on the ATB is noticeable.
Holy magic, imo, is better than nature magic...
If you're an elf focusing on magic then yes, Holy Magic will be more beneficial... though at the same rate you will be using more talents for Holy magic than you would Nature magic. If you're a combat elf you need only the Basic Nature magic for Summon Phantom... which already makes Wasp Swarm better than a rapid because it creates knockback which can have a better effect on creatures with a higher initiative than yours. Of course if the initiative gap is too large, neither Wasp Swarm or rapid will work. | @ Dubblestrafe
Sorry, but I just compared it with other spells like magic arrow. Of course Magic Punsh is harder than a normal attack and it's ability to ignore magic can be very usefull.
I just wanted to show with that comment, that it is not usefull to waste ability-points to magic (SP & Kn) just because of magic punch. Just remember that every point you put into magic, is automaticly missing in the attack or defence of you creatures, too.
That the reason for my opinion: In the end, in most cases, you deal less damage as magic puncher and master of flies... and Nature-magic seems not usefull (untill Summon Phantom) for non-necros... ;) |
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