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| Author | Economy isn't balanced for all factions |
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I'm not complaining, but just wondering why do wizards get all the most expensive things? Magical arts are much more expensive than most of the melee arts, we have to spend millions on mini-arts, while still don't pose much advantage, not to mention many disadvantages. Even castle... according to witchhammer.ru, wizards spend averagely 60k more than any other factions, and 100k more than barbs at level 14. IMO, that just don't sound very logical, every faction is pretty balanced in strength, but did you ignore the economy? It's part of the game! Every player should get an equal amount of stress on the economy, regardless of their faction.
Thanks for reading this boring, grammar-less, pretty pointless speech, I wish to hear your opinions. | You have no need for "mage" arts. In fact, attributes like Knowledge and Spellpower are hard to come by because they drastically increase the effectiveness of your hero.
Regular arts will serve you just fine though. They will keep your army alive much longer allowing your hero to have more turns overall.
As for mini-arts being expensive, there is a debate about that in one of my threads (though it was off-topic within the thread). Feel free to take a look.
https://www.lordswm.com/forum_messages.php?tid=1848136&page=1
Mini-arts are defined by the game as a "luxury." It means you don't have to have them, but they add to your efficiency. Other factions have certain luxuries that are far less useful, and therefore are given to them for free.
Just because all the other wizards strive to get mini-arts does not, in any way, mean they are necessary. Obviously they are making due somehow. And if anyone wants to argue that they are necessary in order to compete with other Wizards in the long-run, allow me to get the jump on that. Other Wizards at your level have had the exact same opportunities playing this game as everyone else; yet they have mini-arts and do not complain. Perhaps they are doing something different, like using cheap arts to meet their AP requirements?
You simply have to find what you're doing that is making it harder for you, personally, to get your money in order. If you need help choosing arts and dealing with your money perhaps you need to check out the first few posts of that thread I mentioned above.
I'd also like to preemptively debunk complaints about the difficulties of making money in this game by referring to the second part of that thread:
https://www.lordswm.com/forum_messages.php?tid=1848139
Enjoy, and good luck :) | Well, although they spend more gold than other faction, but they much more stronger in hunting. You can use no + magical artifact to hunting.
Mini-art is expensive but has no durability, mean that you can use them as long as you want. If you correctly choose what type of mini-art that suit your playing style, they will very strong.
About construction cost,
At Lv 5 Elf spend most at 56k wiz 48k
At Lv 8 Knight spend most at 248k wiz 210k
It just a curve, think in long run it considerable equal. | for #2:
Yes, I agree with many of your points, but without miniarts, we will be no match vs other factions later on, we can do less hunts and mercs, and that will hurt our economy even worse.
As for the making money part, I simply don't feel its hard to make money, it's the fairness I don't like it about. Other factions can enjoy enchanting, smithing, better arts and even better clan positions with their extra money, but we cant. I do think I will have enough money to buy mini arts, but I'm afraid I will never become an enchanter and such | Well, although they spend more gold than other faction, but they much more stronger in hunting. You can use no + magical artifact to hunting.
Mini-art is expensive but has no durability, mean that you can use them as long as you want. If you correctly choose what type of mini-art that suit your playing style, they will very strong.
About construction cost,
At Lv 5 Elf spend most at 56k wiz 48k
At Lv 8 Knight spend most at 248k wiz 210k
It just a curve, think in long run it considerable equal.
for the first part, sure, early levels wiz have so much advantage in hunting, but what do I see in the top hunters at level 8 after great troop improvements? more than 50% Elves happen to claim the top hunter spot. Scroll down and u will see.
They have infinite durability, but u need to change them everytime u achieve a new faction level or u will score low. Be a wizard for somedays and find out how expensive are triple arts.
and for constructions, if u read carefully i mentioned wizards have the most expensive castle, 927k for full upgrade for level 14. Second place only need about 880k. 40k makes difference. In the early stage, it might be just several hundreds, but that makes big difference. | No one can afford smithing or enchanting as well as buying full-arts. There is very little extra money to go around, and if anyone does get extra money it's from a long time of saving up what's left over.
Most people who become smiths or enchanters make people pay them for their services. Discounted, of course, but enough to make it affordable for the smithy/enchanter.
One major problem is that you are LG level 2. That's not a very bad thing, but at 5 LG 3 is ideal. Each time you get a higher LG level you will notice a big increase in the gold you're making.
Hang in there, money is hard on everyone in the game. Wizards are powerful without mini-arts and can easily manage against other factions without them. It's starting to look as if mini-arts have spoiled Wizards, though. They only compare the power of a Wizard with mini-arts to the power of a Wizard without them. Of course the one with mini-arts will be better; but that doesn't mean you can't be compete with other factions. Wizards will always be powerful, so don't let money deter you from your faction's abilities. | for the first part, sure, early levels wiz have so much advantage in hunting, but what do I see in the top hunters at level 8 after great troop improvements? more than 50% Elves happen to claim the top hunter spot. Scroll down and u will see.
They have infinite durability, but u need to change them everytime u achieve a new faction level or u will score low. Be a wizard for somedays and find out how expensive are triple arts.
and for constructions, if u read carefully i mentioned wizards have the most expensive castle, 927k for full upgrade for level 14. Second place only need about 880k. 40k makes difference. In the early stage, it might be just several hundreds, but that makes big difference.
1st part : Yes Elf is almost strongest in hunting but it also need full art to get that. If don't use expensive art, they will have not much different. Each faction is well balance but not in every aspect. I will not discuss this anymore.
2nd part : I play all faction and at least 3 Lv of each faction, I know different between each faction well. If I concentrate only wizard I will have enough money to do mini-art for sure.
3rd part : If you manage to get that Lv 14 40k is not a problem anymore. But At Lv 8 38k different is significant[knight vs wizard]. | With respects to all opinions, I simply can't but agree on hiddenshadow's observation. Wizards are the most expensive faction in this game and in the game info about factions that should be stated.
Miniarts are luxury? Yea, right. Why elven favorite enemies (cheap building) are not luxury and not to mention necro's skeletons that are completely free to get from the fights. If something is too expensive to get, that doesn't mean it's luxury. That means only one thing. If you're to play wizard faction, do please prepare your (dad's?) Mastercard. ;) | for Joxer:
I believe I explained myself clearly enough, but if you need further explanation I'm happy to comply:
Elf's Crit ability is really just a bonus to hunts. Rarely does it really come in handy for PvP. This is especially because the chance to get crit is based on your faction level; and at faction 5 and below it's hard to get a crit in PvP. It is very balanced compared to the Wizard bonus in hunts.
Necro's ability to recruit more skeletons is nothing compared to a Wizard's magic. PvP or not, skeletons are weak. In great numbers they are powerful, but can be cut down easily in PvP.
Remember, Wizards already have a huge PvM bonus with spellcasting; which is their main faction bonus. Mini-arts are an extra bit for them, and if anything Wizards should consider themselves lucky that the option is available to them. | | do u know that only wiz who has 2 unique racial ability? Its kinda fair if one of them is expensive, while u can get the other one for free. | for 10:
1 of them, if not both, is added to balance the game a little more, wizards do not pose any advantages over other factions even with 2 racial abilities, being 1 very costy. If you fancy abilities, be a wizard =P, no but serious.
for all:
These up to millions needed for mini-arts can simply make a great enchanter instead, and income will be simply massive over dozens of months.
If knights castle out-cost all others at lv8, its simply the same question. _My title DOES NOT say the economy isnt balanced for wizards, it reads:"Economy isn't balanced for ALL factions". So maybe it need a little fix as well. | Believe it or not, smithing and enchanting costs way more than mini-arts in the long run.
Consider this... it costs 2.22 million gold just to get to Smithing level 5. That's only 60% repair. Add Enchanting to that and it's already way more than most would spend on mini-arts.
Besides, mini-arts are _far_ more useful than being able to repair arts (they don't break) and they are far more powerful than an enchanted weapon.
The economy is fine, if you are having trouble being a wizard then you would have trouble being any other faction. Or perhaps it wouldn't, because you seem to think that your troops are the most important part of being a Wizard. The capabilities of a Wizard hero are enough to crush most factions in PvP. Combine that with normal shop arts and you even have an army to back your hero up. | if you think that wizards are so "underpowered" play another faction, and then you ll see that they are just as strong as any other opponnent
and at 8;
favoured enemy looks very cool, but its not that usefull.
In mercernary quests ONLY 1 unit is favoured enemy, but wizards DO get the HUGE damage bonus from hunts ALSO in mercernary quests. That makes them easily the best faction to complete mercernary quests. And also against caravans, we have to set favoured enemy on 1 unit, for example cavalry for knights, and then there is a huge chance that we catch a caravan of knights WITHOUT the cavalry!
And look at the last tournament, wizards score were in all levels very high compared to the other factions.
So my conclusion;
A wizard without mini artifacts is weaker then any other player (but cheaper)
A wizard with a few mini artifacts has the same strengt as an other player (same costs)
And a wizard with triple artifacts on all monsters is much stronger then the other factions (but is also a lot more expensive) | #6
ipslne, I agree with you. This whole mini-art issue is just making wizards spoiled. They are unable to compare the wizard faction with other factions. They can only compare wizards with and without the mini-arts. Too many wizards believe that mini-arts are not a luxury and are the same as other faction buildings.
This the same with wizard arts. All wizards are able to compare is the full cost of being a wizard with the full cost of other factions. If gold was no object, it should be obvious that wizards win. | All wizards are able to compare is the full cost of being a wizard with the full cost of other factions.
Apparently, since u dont even start using might before you get genies and e gargs, beside normally only in PvP, u have to go through 3 levels of magical arts which are much more expensive and pain to ur economy, wizards are much costier. Most cases when u use magic build (hunt, merc etc) is when u do the most. Exactly how many gbs or duels would you do compared to hunts and mercs?
They have to constantly updgrade mini-arts after level 8, so hundreds more k will be lost.
Wizards might be above average in gb, hunt(again, full sp), and merc(full sp), but they lose in thieving(which gives incredible amount of economic stress under a short period). Not only the usual ambushing you talk about, but think about getting ambushed. Getting ambushed is thousand times painer, wizards are like born thieving losers, no matter how kusika or alyna u are, no matter if you're Albert Einstein or Isaac Newton, strategy doesn't help, you will still lose to a normal person. That adds up. Each time u lose an ambush u lose 62.5 gold, and thats approxmately once per day.... It's not that much compared to mini-arts or just magical arts, but donate it in your clan and, I don't know, no tax for ever?
If all the factions are balanced, both in strength and economically, why would there be such a population difference? How many of the elves or dark elves are seriuosly going to say they would stay the same faction if all factions are PERFECTLY balanced? | Each time u lose an ambush u lose 62.5 gold
just send a nice pm to the thief, 99% of the time they give the gold back.
Ive only met 1 person so far that didnt want to return the gold. | just send a nice pm to the thief, 99% of the time they give the gold back.
Ive only met 1 person so far that didnt want to return the gold.
Partly coz Elves or DE hardly lose even being the ambushed xD | oh yeah sure, the overpowered elves and dark elves
if they are "so great" why dont you play them?
Instead you play the "most expensive and underpowered and most unfair" faction
This is just like one of the many topics, they cant win, then they blame the faction | Wizards are all about patience.
Not only in the battlefield ( our battles are notoriously longer than other factions :P ) but also in economy in this game.
If someone cannot handle it simply dont be a wizard :P
Extremely expensive mini artifacts are far from necessary if you want to play magic build, all you need is defense ( or maybe defense/hp if you can gather some more gold ) on your creatures , attack,luck etc are far from amazing when playing a caster. | It didn't start as complaining about our weaknesses(in fact, i never said I was complaining, I'm just saying maybe it need a more balance, IMO, the economy is against wizards), I was saying without those costy miniarts, arts and such, having a normal castle like anyone else', there would be no match. Even with mini-arts, we pose no special advantage overall, so why do we play a more costier faction than anyone else if all factions' strength are equal in general, or they are supposed to be equal.
A small part but on the growth part of the game is economy. Wizards need to cope with tougher conditions. And many of the lost gold are needed to be even stronger. |
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