| Author | Maximising 'Attack' skill overpowered??? So let's... |
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Do you feel that at high level, PVP combats are too quick?
People HAVE to maximise their 'attack' skill to kill as fast as possible before being killed? i.e. MOST HIGH level build HAVE to use most of their primary skills on 'attack' to STAY competitive... the legendary MIGHT builts...
Also do you feel Dark elf is the flavour of the month because the combination of MAX attack and very high intiative is imbalanced?
If not, please suggest why you think so... Oterwise, how about introducing HERO PERKS:
Since I am a necro here are my idea (please criticise on the CONCEPT, NOT the numbers):
List of hero perks (something like a talent wheel???):
-----Basic, Advanced and Elite 'Attack', 'defence', 'spell power' and 'knowledge' perks.
Basic perk of XXX skill allows a MAXIMUM of XXX skill similar to the COMBAT LEVEL of the hero.
Advance perk allows 150% the combat level and Elite 200%.
What that means: for example,
A level 10 hero with basic 'attack' PERK can have a MAXIMUM of 10 'attack' skills. With Advanced 'attack' perk, UP TO 15 attack skills, and finally, elite 'attack' perk, UP to 20 attack skills. Same story for the other perks for XXX skills.
So what does it do?
THIS COMPELS heroes to distribute their skill points more equally... WHY using ALL his skill points on 'attack' for example if after equiping your hero with all your fancy attack-modifying items and STILL BE CAPPED at your perk level.
However, heroes can still train the 'elite' perk if s/he wants to maximise attack.. howerver there should be DRAWBACKS... like missing out on other interesting PERKS (since heroes have LIMITED PERK POINTS).
Hence, lets introduce other perks (using necro for example):
----- Howl of terror perk: necro heroes have 10% higher initiative for ONLY the FIRST ROUND and can use the BANSHEE HOWL ability (only once): causing all living enemies to lose -1 morale and -1 luck for (spell power * 0.5) rounds i.e. the banshee howl will last 5 rounds for a hero with 10 spell powers.
----- The scourge perk: increase the skeleton / skelets archer recruit number by 10% (cumulative with necro racial ability).
-----Frenzy perk: doubles the initiative of zombie and infected zombies
-----Poltergeits: When the ghost or aparition defends or waits, the miss and hit counter goes back to zero.
-----Blood thirst perk: all melee attacks of necro's army DRAIN LIFE (however only 5% of damage.... unlike the vampire's drain life ability of 50% damage). This perk stacks up with that of the vampire (i.e. 55% drain life).
more and more.... |
i think this really limits the power of all.
just because people like the aspect of attack doesnt mean you have to limit it.
what kind of game would it be when we like to have something the admins just took it away or limited it. it is kind of like:
Maxim: "there are alot of elves"
Alex: "they really seem to like them"
Maxim: "but there are way to many"
Alex: "yh you are right lets take out the elf faction because players seem to like it"
Maxim: "no lets just make it where only 10% of the players can use them, because they like them too much and are having to much fun" |
To 2:
What you call 'limitation', I call 'improving diversity'.
I DID not limit their ability to maximise their 'attack' or XXX skills, train Elite' XXX skill' perk. However, I made other options possible (for those that FEEL TRUELY LIMITED in being COMPELLED to maximise 'attack' skills to STAY COMPETITIVE at high level)...
You want a super high attack dark elf with high initiative, YOU CAN have it... but beware, your speciality (super mighty built) and inflexibility MAY be your undoing. |
yes but only 2 times your combat lvl is not really that high in full arts
fes has 33 attack =S you would then limit him to 26 |
| deferent factions need different builds, dark elves are fast and attack well, that's why they need high attack, just like knights are slow but have good numbers, often alot of defence helps those stacks of 100 guards to survive a long time, what would be the point of a dark elf having shrews and piling all the points into defence? Shrews are DEFINATELY an offensive unit, and therefore most dark elves choose max attack. This is reflected in the talent wheel, dark elves offence talent is only 7 points, whereas in other factions the offence talent costs more talent points |
To 5:
Yes Dark elf is an offensive race. I agree.
But they are also a chaos magic race.
Racial empowering skill? You know that right? So dark elf should be a combination of offensive magic and super fast attack. However ALL high level built are MIGHT builds and TOTALLY neglect their RACIAL chaos skill...
Does this tell you somehting? Does 50% of top players playing as dark elf (out of 7 possible factions) tell you something about their might builds + high intiative? Does the lack of MAGIC-oriented top players tell you something?
As I said they can still train Elite 'attack' perk to maximise their attack
And to 4:
I said NOT to criticise ON the numbers... If you think Elite 'attack' perk should be 250% of combat level, SO BIT IT.. but PLEASE CRITICISE on the CONCEPT. And yes, I dont want to force people (like Fes) to diversify but you should not force others to specialise on might buils to STAY competitive...
Thanks for input btw. |
magic build for dark elf is far more effective in pvp, but as there aren't that many up there at high levels, people are forced into hunts/mercs etc, in which they NEED attack for, it's not about LIMITING offence power, it's about what is viable to do as that faction.
Also the erudition talent as DE is 10 talent points, whereas offence is 7, not sure on the chaos/darkness magic ones however, but each faction has their strengths/weaknesses, just happens DE is good at hunts/ambushes/merc (all the PvE areas) with might build (as there are so many troops at the later points magic would be much less effective and wouldn't be able to do as much) and in PvP, magic DE would be more effective, therefore it's due to what they can physically do, they don't need other level 12/13s online to do mercs/hunts all the time, but they do to do PvPs |
| magic DE fails in all hunt/merc :p |
The idea has some merit. However, there is just one huge flaw. It unfairly penalizes some factions over others. Wizards, for example, won't be affected much by this, because they don't normally need Attack anyway. Wizards already unjustifiably have two racial skills. Why would you want to give them any more advantage?
This won't just diversify builds, it will weaken them. I would be ok with the weakening part, if it does all factions equally. That's just not the case here.
The lack of magic-oriented top players is a problem alright, but this is definitely not the way to fix it. Fix the magic instead. |
To 9:
True. My suggestion will favor certain factions more. That was intended to improve magic built over might builts for both PvP and PvM. Currently, might builds are good for PvM AND ambush AND PvP. In contrast, Magic built are mainly support for PvP and die horribly in ambushes. It's a no brainer what build to train for...
However, the developers can balance each faction by tweaking the numbers: what if Basic 'spell power' perk is 50% of combat level of character? Or maybe makes the 'spell power' and 'knowledge' perks require DOUBLE perk points than 'attack' or 'defence'.
My aim is to discourage people from maximising a skill... I have been watching 3v3 pvp matches with top players and the match is mostly decided after 3 rounds. the remaining rounds are to clean up the field. Also to make interesting builds not based SOLELY on maximising MIGHT or MAGIC.
If employed properly, it will encourage players to spread their skill points and hence, allow longer matches and therefore, more time to perform tactics and strategies.
Currently its a DO (quickly and with as much damage as possible) or DIE (support can not even do their thing and hence are compelled to maximise their might to compete).
Otherwise, my suggestions may be irrelevant IF level 4 and 5 magics are introduced.
A BIT "IF"... |
| hmm, PVP too quick? I still think it's a bit slow :) |
| lol ViSao, was about to write the same thing:) |
combats at lower lvls can be decided in one turn regardless of the stats:
wich elven bowman goes first
if i am fighting in a duel against another elf 4 out of 5 times the elven to shoot first wins or the efk to hit first wins
combats being decided fast is not just stats but first hit |
Also do you feel Dark elf is the flavour of the month because the combination of MAX attack and very high intiative is imbalanced?
Dont write such stupid thing please. Only shrews have good iniative, but they are killed quickly and easily by archers. . . Have u seen archer in DE. nooo. Hydras and minos have worst iniative, they even miss the turn if u stun them. Besides everyone can have MAX attack.
Any faction can easily kill DE in duel. So stop writting bullshit about the DE advantages. Every faction uis good if u know how to play. . . |
exactly what i have been telling everyone
everyone is saying garbage like: hydras are so powerful they are over-powered
-_- 6 initiative like that of a zombie
atleast units like unicorns actually get in the battle b4 it is over
de is only used so much by they top player because:
shrews are great for hunts
when they want to try new faction they choose DE because faction skill does not matter
well a guess the top players can say why they choose DE better than i |
| in group battles DE usually gets 1 turn with shews and then they die. Mino and hydra slow, no decent archer, So kill shews and DE is ded. |
| High level combats are too quick? I don't think so. |
| High level combat too quick? Decent 3vs3 takes 1 hour+ if one side dont have great advantage. I wouldnt call that quick ... If all players would go max defence it would take 2+ hours for sure |
High level combat too quick? Decent 3vs3 takes 1 hour+ if one side dont have great advantage. I wouldnt call that quick ... If all players would go max defence it would take 2+ hours for sure
even at lev 7 a fight can last at least 30 min |
He/She said a fight was decided in the few turns, meaning such a devise move was made that the other side couldn't recover, and the rest of the fight was just to finish the remaining units,
I don't know if this is true or not(haven't went and checked for my self),
but I like the concept of the idea +1 |
