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| Author | Hunt Assist |
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[Post deleted by moderator Takesister // Please do not insult others on the forums]
[Player banned by moderator Takesister until 2009-08-27 16:33:23 // Please do do not insult or put down others on the forums. Warning ban 15 minutes] | Okay, I'm really dissapointed that this game was ruined because of such players who only want to level up and get experience from everything and they don't understand anything about tactics, etc. (and nevertheless claim to be great tacticians and tell others to learn from them :) ).
And those players who love and know how to hunt can't make hunt records because of too much experience. And they have to look for various crazy ways how to earn more skill and hunt points like in this thread. | Many people, many ways to play games, many different goals they want to achieve, many opinions.
Games are games because they have rules which make players comparable and enable duelling. When the rules of this game here don't suit you then maybe look for a "better" one. Therefor millions of games exist and people play what they want, not?
because of too much experience LOL, maybe you should look for a different gametype, not a RPG.
Just a little hint: When i am a players who only want to level up and get experience from everything and they don't understand anything about tactics, etc. then you should level up to my level and show me your overpower that you think you have. I guess you think you would easily win.
I have not only focussed on funny records but on killing people that can't teamplay and think they are superior with a short glimpse. | | I wonder how people like me ruin the game :o | And now you want to make it possible to achieve EVERYTHING at low levels?!
No, not everything.
This is a strategy game.
Players should be able to decide how they will play this game, i.e.:
1) should they have fun by playing this game fast and have high level upgrades fast, etc.
2) or maybe they want to be level campers and have fun by upgrading their skill as much as possible for that level.
So, we actually have 2 types of players:
- players, who want to play fast
- players, who want to play slow
I think that BOTH players should have fun.
I've suggested to LIMIT faction skill points (fsp) in a given combat level (see below).
It means that you can play slow and get as much fsp as possible, but not TOO MUCH.
The idea is that you can play fast or slow, and the difference is, of course, different fsp/xp ratio.
I suggested an option in "Personal settings" page (at first it was suggested only for hunts, but later Xeno suggested it to be for ANY battles):
1. If this option "checked" then you will get combat experience.
2. If this option is "unchecked" (default) then you don't get combat experience.
This way ALL players would have fun, because in ANY combat level you could upgrade yourself at any time you want (i.e. new players could play fast and later could be level camper, if they wish so).
This way:
1) you can be a thief and still improve FSP/EX ratio
2) you can fight in PvP and still improve FSP/EX ratio
3) you can hunt or assist and still improve FSP/EX ratio
4) you can do mercenary quests and still improve FSP/EX ratio
5) anytime you can "check" or "uncheck" that option if you changed your mind
The suggestion to LIMIT fsp was this:
A = skill points required for faction level if that level were the same as your combat level (eg, if your combat level is 6 then A = 500)
Then
1) each faction skill points <= A
2) sum of all FSP of all factions <= 3*A
For example, it means this:
if your combat level is 6 then:
- every faction skill points <= 500
- the sum of all FSP <= 1500
Other example:
if your combat level is 3 and you are Elf then you can be
Wizard: 2 (90.00) + Elf: 3 (90.00) + Necromancer: 2 (90.00)
but you can't be
Wizard: 2 (90.00) + Elf: 3 (90.00) + Necromancer: 2 (90.00) + Demon: 0 (10.00)
because 90+90+90+10 > 3*90
It means that if you reached maximum FSP then you WON'T GET ANY MORE FSP until raise your combat level (or switch to other faction if the sum of all FSP isn't too big, but you will reach a LIMIT anyway).
More details:
https://www.lordswm.com/forum_messages.php?tid=1844398&page=1
https://www.lordswm.com/forum_messages.php?tid=1844398&page=2
That suggestion wasn't final, i.e. feel free to modify it.
The idea is clear.
The main idea is that combat experience shouldn't be bound to faction skill points, i.e. players SHOULD have DIFFERENT fsp/xp ratio (depending on their playing style).
Anyway, what is a STRATEGY game then?
More variety in this game would give more strategy.
Don't you think so?
I like the words said by Georgia:
we all know what this is all about: players who log in rarely don't want to meet around others with better characteristics, even if they haven't put any effort to improve themselves. is this normal? no! are they able to give a single example from the real life where this is possible? the same answer.
i don't know, maybe they've used to play online backgammon so far with equal number of pieces and dice to roll, but in strategy games with a role-playing element the things are a bit more deep... you can't just show up and say "hello, world! i'm one happy newbie and i don't want player(x) and player(y) to be stronger than me!"
| Sorry when i say i really don't like this :/
But imagine this to be, "normal" players would be kicked out of this game violently, cuz they can't compete with a level 1 skilllevel 9 hero. Its not only in direct confrontation (duels, groupbattles), its in hunt assists aswell where this player skilllevel 9 player kills much more of the units. What i want to say is: Even if you would try to evade skilllevel-overpowered players you will never be able to do it always. You meet such players and until high levels this won't end (skilllevel freaks won't ever reach level 14 if it were to them to decide).
Gamebalance dies to the introduction of such an option. | for I_own_you_all:
You misunderstood something, did you really read a LIMIT for FSP I wrote?
By that LIMIT level 1 player CAN'T have faction level more than 1.
This is done by first rule:
1) each faction skill points <= A
This rules implies that your faction level CAN'T exceed your combat level!
The second rule
2) sum of all FSP of all factions <= 3*A
implies that maximum 3 factions can be equal to your combat level (at least, at low combat levels). | | There are hunt records in this game so it's normal that some players actually want to break them. But for new players it's almost impossible because they get so much experience now they can't even get to kill the bigger amount of creatures because untill they get to kill them they level-up. Also, new players have smaller hunt level than old players of the same level. Like this player who created this topic, he is even ready to pay gold for 0.1 hunt points. | But for new players it's almost impossible because they get so much experience now they can't even get to kill the bigger amount of creatures because untill they get to kill them they level-up.
Wrong. If you really want to beat a record, just pass hunts until you get the record you want to try. You don't need ALL the records, just some. | Level camping makes the game fun for a small selection of people (those sad level campers) and ruins it for everyone else.
You meet a level camper in a combined hunt, he takes all the xp. You meet a level camper in an ambush, you will lose unless you are a tactical genius, and even with that the overpower might be too much. You get in to a duel or a group battle, the level camper will crush his opposition.
In any game you must look at all your players. If giving some joy to some players gives lots of disappointmetn to many players, it is a bad idea. Anything that allows level camping is bad.
If you want the records, choose a record, pass all hunts but that enemy, and gun for it. Easy.
If your idea is implemented. What happens in 2 months time when all the records are held by level campers? New players wont be able to get the records either. So you haven't created a solution. You've just looked at what you want with no vision of the bigger picture. | If your idea is implemented. What happens in 2 months time when all the records are held by level campers? New players wont be able to get the records either. So you haven't created a solution. You've just looked at what you want with no vision of the bigger picture.
What idea are you talking about? The player who created this topic wants to get more hunt points. Hunter level is needed to kill higher level creatures. The level campers who started playing this game more than a year ago could raise their hunt level quite easily, by passing hunts and killing only very small stacks of creatures (only 1/3 of the normal stack size) plus making hunt assists. Now it's impossible to raise your hunt level so easily. This means that those old players will have their records forever. Like Zehir who killed Titans at level 5, you need hunter level 5 for that and how many new players have hunter level 5 at level 5? Show me one. This means that new players will never be able even try to kill Titans and Zehir will stay there forever (unless some other old level campers will beat him :) ).
Plus why are you all so worried that level campers will take your experience in combined hunts, etc. Level campers don't want any experience! You can have it all! | If you really want to beat a record, just pass hunts until you get the record you want to try.
That's not possible (and never was).
If you see 604 Wolf Raiders and skip them then next time when you see Wolf Raiders you will get THE SAME amount of them, i.e. 604 (not more, not less).
Before this upgrade
https://www.lordswm.com/forum_messages.php?tid=1842732
you could pass them and next time you could get 2/3 or 1/3 of them (i.e. if you skip 604 then next time you get 604, or (2/3)*604=402, or (1/3)*604=201, if 604 was the maximum you ever saw).
But that's no longer possible (the amount of monsters always increase when you win).
Approximate rule of increasing is this:
- you will get 1.3 times more if you've killed them alone;
- if you've killed them when someone assisted you then you'll get 1.15 times more (instead of 1.3).
I've looked at your combat log:
08-25-09 21:43: Anyone[9] vs Wolf Raiders (604)
last victory vs Wolf Raiders before that:
05-05-09 00:18: Anyone[8], Kunjitek[8] vs Wolf Raiders (530)
530*1.15 = 609.50 (not 604, but I've said that it is only an approximation)
It should be 1.14 instead of 1.15 (in ths case):
530*1.14 = 604.20
You have defeated 604 Wolf Raiders alone. So, next time you should get about 604*1.3 = 785.2 Wolf Raiders.
If you skip them then you will never get more or less - always the same amount (until you defeat them).
So, if you want to get very high amount of monsters then you must win several times against them - it will be a huge amount of experience.
Moreover, if you lose you will also get experience ("thanks" to the upgrade I mention before).
for Barbarian-Fishy:
I've already said that you can't get fsp TOO MUCH if that LIMIT would be implemented (NOBODY would be overpowered - change the value of A if you think that it is too big).
Also please read what Georgia said (it's exactly for you). | for Robai:
you did not understand what he wanted to say.
i will try to explain.
let say you want to break griffins record.
you hunt griffins once, then you hunt poisoners, farmers, golems, griffins again, rogues, imps...and you level up.
you have won your last hunt against griffins, but it was not enough to break a record. and now you have leveled-up, you can't break the hunt record you were looking for.
a good way to avoid this: hunt griffins, then pass by poisoners, pass by farmers, pass by golems, hunt griffins, pass by rogues, pass by imps...
and you will be able to try griffins record before the level-up. | | Yes, Karsot explained what I wanted to say. I probably should've made it clearer, so that was my fault. | And what if I want to kill Titans at level 5? How to gain the necessary hunter level?
Now it's almost impossible (unless you do as is proposed in this topic, i.e. join hunts but don't kill anything and after several thousand hunt assists you will have the hunter level you need).
I don't understand why they give 100% experience in hunt-assist (in case your partner doesn't kill anything), but only 0.25 skill points and only 0.1 hunt point? Now if your partner goes afk, you are punished if you kill everything, because experience without any skill points is really bad. It's better to go die in this case as well and get nothing and I've seen other players do so even though they could easily win. | Instead of advocating level camping, then why not have 2 sets of record. Pre rule change records, and new rules records?
Karsot said exactly what I wanted. If you want the griffin record, pass up all hunts but griffin hunts. | why not have 2 sets of record. Pre rule change records, and new rules records?
I agree. Or there could be records of the month and all-time records. It would be more fun for the new players to be at least in some record tables.
Karsot said exactly what I wanted. If you want the griffin record, pass up all hunts but griffin hunts.
It could take months. Now I've been wainting for some ogres for more than a week. If I wanted to make a griffin record, I would have to kill them 5 or 6 times to make a new record, so it might take at least 5 or 6 weeks of passing by and doing nothing. And what if I lose several times and level-up? After spending so much time I will get nothing.
I think it's too complicated now for new players to make records. | there could be records of the month and all-time records.
That sounds nice
so it might take at least 5 or 6 weeks of passing by and doing nothing Why not? These records seem important enough for some of you.
Atleast that It's better to go die in this case as well and get nothing and I've seen other players do so even though they could easily win. is proof enough. | You wrote
"I think it's too complicated now for new players to make records."
This is a problem many people make in games that you compete against humans, not AIs. They are so used to getting all the records, getting 100% completion by just spending enough time in the games they play, they fail to understand that you are competing against humans.
If 1 person spends 20 weeks to get a record, and is competent (or even worse quite skilled), then you will most likely need to spend 20 weeks or ore to take that record.
Getting a record should be complicated. If it's easy it keeps getting broken until it becomes difficult anyway. | It's better to go die in this case as well and get nothing and I've seen other players do so even though they could easily win.
What I meant by that is that if you still fight you only get experience with no skill points, i.e. you become weaker that other players with the same amount of experience. So this is an additional punishment for the assisting player if his partner goes afk. I.e., this game is made so that if you don't want to become weaker it's better to lose. |
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