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the caravan after faction change



Authorthe caravan after faction change
recently i switched from DE to barb. i found the total # of troops in the caravan increased more than 50%.

does anyone have similar experience after you changed to a new faction? or does anyone know how the initial # of caravan was determined?
https://www.lordswm.com/forum_messages.php?tid=1860808

Read post 7.
yes, it happens. It increases about 40%. :p

Following is the word from another top player:
There are a co-efficients of strength of caravans for factions:
1.0 DE
1.3 Demon
1.4 Barbarian
1.4 Necro
1.6 Elf
1.7 Knight
1.8 Wizard
I thought that in the thread given by post 2, Korzika proved that this is bogus, or rather, this data is being misinterpreted. Based on the battle links she gave, I have to agree with her.

Also, her interpretation makes sense too, which is that the coefficients mean how hard it would seem to the faction that faces the (same) caravan, not that the caravan changes in strength depending on the ambushing faction.
that looks familiar :)

thx for refresh me
+4
that's my original understanding, for the same # of caravan, different faction may feel different difficulty.
I think you find that the # of troops in your caravans to be different because of the increase/decrease in difficulty as a result of your wins/losses.
Following is the word from another top player:
There are a co-efficients of strength of caravans for factions:
1.0 DE
1.3 Demon
1.4 Barbarian
1.4 Necro
1.6 Elf
1.7 Knight
1.8 Wizard


Does this have something to do with making thieving less appealing for 'good' factions and more appealing for 'evil' factions. Else I don't see the need for DE's to have easier caravans as elfs for example...
I think it is because DE troops are fast but weak. When you kill Shews DE has been defeated...
I believe there are 'pre-determined' numbers in enemy stacks that each faction will face at a given level. From that thread/post given by Straws in post #2, DEs have the lowest preset starting numbers at a given level. Then that increase-%-when-u-win, decrease-%-when-u-lose formula kicks in.

The following is extracted from a recent discussion from another thread showing the numbers a knight and DE faced at the same combat level (lvl 11) for an exact type of caravan:

Lvl 11 Knight: https://www.lordswm.com/warlog.php?warid=483874166&lt=-1&lt=-1
Lvl 11 DE: https://www.lordswm.com/warlog.php?warid=483838971&lt=-1&lt=-1

Knight
======
EFKs: 115 x 1
FKs: 93 x 1
Faeries: 65 x 7
Sprites: 63 x 3
Anchorites: 10 x 2
Druids: 9 x 2

DE
==
EFKs: 26-27 x 4
FKs: 33 x 2
Faeries: 36-37 x 5
Sprites: 54 x 1
Druids: 1-2 x 4

Efks about 5 times more than yours.
Fks, 3 times,
Across the board, my caravan stacks are 3-5x yours.

We both had similar Attk/Def Hero stats, you (DE) won, I (knight) lost. Get the point? :)

MasterTI already gave the stats that knights caravans are generally a lot more difficult than DEs (and all other factions except Wiz), so there's no comparison really. :)



The huge difference in stacks indicate that certain factions do indeed have much higher stacks/harder caravans than other factions. Not surprising then that DEs and Demons have the lowest numbers', while knights and Wizards have the hardest.

Not surprising when u consider that almost every player who's got at least TG6 (except 1 if I'm not mistaken) has switched to DE or Demon to do ambushing.

So unless a DE/demon have personally done some ambushing as a Wiz or Knight, one has no idea what the other factions face in ambushing.
For GGW: you're not on your own, see this:

https://www.lordswm.com/forum_messages.php?tid=1864967
#10

Your example is worthless. You're comparing battles from two different players, who could have different TG points, have started TG at different levels, and happen to have encountered Elf caravans at a different number of times (one could have faced it 30 times, the other 10).

You need to come up with an example from the same player who has switched factions, with two caravans of exactly the same type just before and after the switch, like Korzika did.
Here's a good example:

As a DE: https://www.lordswm.com/warlog.php?lt=-1&warid=15151533

Then 24 hours later, as a barb: https://www.lordswm.com/warlog.php?lt=-1&warid=15180672
Thanks for saying my example is 'worthless'. Much appreciated. :)

Fyi, how many TG points one has, what level one started TG etc, has absolutely nothing to do with the caravan numbers a faction gets at a given combat level as far as I know.

And with the sheer difference in numbers from the example I gave, it really don't matter if u have faced and won that particular type iof caravan 50 times, you still won't get the huge difference in the caravan numbers.

But if u want examples, here's examples from the SAME player.

Note: They are from the same type of caravan, taken 1 after the other after the switch from DE and Barb, and in both cases, GGW lost the 1st one, so they should be a decrease in caravan numbers, not increase.

As DE: https://www.lordswm.com/warlog.php?warid=483642786&lt=-1
As Barb: https://www.lordswm.com/warlog.php?warid=483984862&lt=-1

DE
==
EFKs: 121
Faeries: 96-97
GMBs: 6
EBs: 12

Barb
====
EFKs: -
Faeries: 115-116
GMBs: 13-14
EBs: 15-16


Another example if u are not convince yet:

As DE: https://www.lordswm.com/warlog.php?warid=482759047&lt=-1
As Barb: https://www.lordswm.com/warlog.php?warid=483960010&lt=-1

DE
==
Vamp Counts: 67
Apparitions: 50-51
Ghosts: 90
Infected Zobs: 14-15
Zombs: 15

Barb
====
Vamps: 79
Apparitions: -
Ghosts: 87
Infected Zobs: 28
Zombs: 20


In both examples, some of the increase in stacks of the same creature type are more than 100%, and this is after a LOSS in the previous same caravan type.

No dispute really. It's a fact that even if the same player switch faction from DE to any other, there will be an increase in the numbers he/she will face, even after a loss.

Also explains why Barilla made this remark:


I remember long ago I wondered how chinablue can have so many lost games, now I understand it...

since I switched from DElf to barb my caravans strenght got doubled, every hunt is for record, PvP is in my gaming hours rare (05.00-13.00 ST) and merc guild is 1 out of 5...



Nothing to dispute really, just a fact.

So u want lower numbers/easier caravans, play DE. U want to know what hard caravans are, play Wiz/Knight. And unless u have personally play TG as a Wiz/Knight, seriously, DEs can't begin to imagine how hard it is for the rest of the factions.
it's pretty clear that the amount of caravans follows the above mentioned formula. and thanks Jedi using my example

here is another example more visible:
10-17-09 01:23 https://www.lordswm.com/warlog.php?lt=-1&warid=15724262
10-17-09 05:05 https://www.lordswm.com/warlog.php?lt=-1&warid=15726937

the first one is my last ambush as DE, the second one is my first ambush as barb, 3 hours interval. the caravans are exactly the same style and the amount of troops is easier to count.
here is another example more visible:
10-17-09 01:23 https://www.lordswm.com/warlog.php?lt=-1&warid=15724262[Full] [Chat]
10-17-09 05:05 https://www.lordswm.com/warlog.php?lt=-1&warid=15726937[Full] [Chat]


DE
==
Liz Assilants: 20-21 x 2
Liz Cav: 39 x 2

The increase after the switch (after a loss) ==>

Barb
====
Liz Assailants: 45 & 22
Liz Cav: 61 & 30


More than a 100% increase in 1 of the Liz Ass's stack, and about 80% for a Liz Cav stack.


Kidda proves it beyond doubt really.
1.0 DE
1.3 Demon
1.4 Barbarian
1.4 Necro
1.6 Elf
1.7 Knight
1.8 Wizard


And this is the jump from DE to Barb, which is supposed to be a '0.4' increase in difficulty.

Now go imagine what a Wiz or Knight is getting.

yes, there may be some who says knights for example gets huge numbers. But what's the point if by the time the knight's troops gets to go, the stacks have been attacked till they are of similar or lower numbers than the other factions like DE (!). What's the point of starting with a stack of 1000, but by the time that stack's turn arrives, it's down to 50?

And bear in mind, a DE ALWAYS (correct me if i'm wrong here, but I don't think I am) gets to get first strike (and possibly 2nd, 3rd and 4th as well) in before the caravan, so in actual fact, by the time the caravan gets to go, it's small numbers (compared to other factions') are reduced even further.

Balanced factions? Ermm.. I think not..
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