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| Author | #529 GB Tournament Clan - Inter-clan debate |
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Clan topic local rules:
4. Inter-clan debates and disputes are allowed on this forum, though flaming and off-topics are still forbidden.
I have created this thread because I think there are issues which need to be discussed and resolved following the recent hijack of this clan.
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I was involved in the conception of this clan and the idea was good.
The WHOLE purpose of this clan was to provide a place where players could come for group battles knowing that their battle descriptions would be followed and to have fun and learn how to battle better.
It was not a clan in the normal sense in that "leadership" did not try and control its members, did not expect any special loyalties or have any other private objectives or agendas.
Everyone was welcome over level 8. Regardless of personal relationships, clans or style of play. People had an easy choice, did they want to be part of it and follow the few simple rules (on clan profile page) in which case they joined otherwise they did not.
It would appear though that 2 players have managed to hijack the clan there reason being "it was not democratic enough". How did they do this? By asking the members? By an election? No they just took control.
Just to clarify, the clan was never created as a democracy, it was created to have very few rules set by the founding clans. Members were then left to fight as they wished as long as they followed these rules and people joined knowing these rules and accepting them.
Suddenly the fun and comradeship which had been present is gone, the battles have almost stopped and politics are rife in the clan chat room.
I am not willing to have my name assosciated with this so am resigning my posts as Chronicler, Treasurer & Head Recruiter.
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I call for a vote of no confidence in the current leader and that the clan members be allowed to say who they want to be the figurehead rather than have this imposed on them.
I call for a return to the original clan concept. A few simple rules like dont jump into someone else's battle without asking and follow restrictions in battle descriptions.
I call to reject the new and un-workable rules like running a tournament where people outside the clan can also join (do you really think they will follow AP limits, etc)?
Things need to be kept simple, clear and fun. People should be helped to fight when and as they wish without a small group of players trying to control things. I do not like to see people attitudes as "If I want to hear your opinion I will tell you what it is"
Like most of you. I joined to have fun and play fair battles with like-minded people and learn to GB better.
I thought hard before making this post but eventually felt it needed to be done following all the PMs and messages I was sent from unhappy people who did not feel that their views would be taken seriously if they did it. | I don't really understand why there is a discussion how this clan should be led. Imo this clan was found to bring together players with common interests in group battles and a certain stage of maturity knowing all how to behave. Besides bringing together these agitated players under one clan don't need no rules or real leadership because imo there is only one reason for this clan:
getting a private chat to bring up an even battle between evened teams.
So everyone still interested in mostly "fair" gb should stay and bring back the joy to this clan.
it's still just a game ;) | As the representative of Warrior Guild Wrath Clan in GB clan I would like to say our guild's view in latest developments.
Despite initial fears of some members that this would be rather a place of politics than a place of fun, we managed to have a good time, GBs and fun although our guild was viewed with suspicion at the first place of LOS who actually run GB clan through modi
Los won a fair victory over Elite Warriors because they participated in full strength.
Congrats once more to LOS for the victory from WGW
After the end of 1st tournament we watched WITH DEEP SORROW the following:
A member of Elite Warriors sending an offensive and unpolite mail to modi saying LOS won because most Elite hate modi so much they bothered to report.
Although modi is not the best friend of Warriors Guild he has the right to be respected for his efforts on this clan.
This was totally unfair and impolite and to our opinion Elite should congratulate LOS for the victory
Just after that we watched Visao declaring Elite Warriors are leving the GB clan!
Half Elite left and half stayed!
We watched the leadership being delivered from Visao to modi and after that to CGSMCMLXXV - I 'll learn to spell that one day
We don't know any details on how it was decided
CGS said he wants to run the guild along with participating clans representatives, aka as it was said GB clan would be in the first place.
Warrior's Guild Wrath stated full support for the new leader from day 1
That is because WGW is in GB Clan to have fun and GB and not to play military clan politics!!!
But I am not sure everyone thinks the same...
We also told CGS that he is the most suitable person to be the leader
Because of his neutrality.
He is not a member of any strong MC and has no open conflicts with anyone.
He is a proven GB lover and runs a decent clan of GB fans who had never problem with any clan in particular.
That's why he would be listened easier
CGS said GB clan should be a place of democracy and respect for GB lovers.
CGS also liked the idea of creating a round table with 1 representative of each guild participating with a team of 7 to fine tune any problems under his presidency and run the clan that way.
and deathisnear writes:
Just to clarify, the clan was never created as a democracy....
One could traslate this statement as follows:
This clan was founded by us and we will be in control. Whoever doesn't like founder's way should step out
And what is the problem with democracy in general?
Who is the second person who hijacked the clan and how, if the first is CGS???
We can't believe our monitors with latest developments on 529!!
Really a pity...
I don't want to flame and I ll not say more...
Finishing:
BOTH HANDS UP FOR CGSMCMLXXV !!!
Full support from Warriors Guild Wrath to the new leader of #529
Every clan should appreciate his hard work and neutrality and fully support him
May he be strong enough to face the political storm he neither created nor flamed.
He will be a leader for all GB lovers and the only hope that this clan survives latest political tense. | and deathisnear writes:
Just to clarify, the clan was never created as a democracy....
One could traslate this statement as follows:
This clan was founded by us and we will be in control. Whoever doesn't like founder's way should step out
As you were not involved in the setting up of this clan and are just the War Arranger for WGW (e.g. your job is to get your clans members online if needed to fight) and not in fact the leader of WGW I will explain it to you.
The clan was setup to create a convienent environment where people could meet to fight together knowing that others would fight fairly and follow the rules.
There is no need for a democracy as the clans purpose and objective was clearly stated from the beginning. People joined because they liked this concept. Not because they wanted it to be changed by ANY individual member.
There are intentionally very few rules and all of those are concerned with ensuring that people play fair and equal matches. None of us needs someone trying to make things more complex or spoil the fun for others by putting in additional rules or requirements (or changing the current ones). That said, most of the people involved are adults or at least have a mature attitude and are quite capable of deciding when/who/how the fight without having to be told by anyone else.
As I have already discussed with CGSMCMLXXV in chat, I have no problems with him personally but he was just unfortunate that events occurred to put him in the position he is in now. All the leaders have been very careful to try and be impartial and constructive and try to do what they can to make the clan a success.
If ANY group of members want to run a tournament of ANY format they want then they dont need permission to do so, just the time to set it up and organise and enough players willing to join in as they wish.
There is no need for a democracy as there is no need for anyone to lead. They can already set any specific requirements they want for a GB and know that the existing clan rules will ensure that everyone follows them when joining or face eviction.
I also want to make clear that I have no desire to lead this clan. All I want is for things to return to what we all joined for so we can all continue to have fun and fair fights. | Simplicity is a thing of beauty.
We (the original founders) worked very hard to come up with fair rules that ALL players can agree to.
To my knowledge everyone loves things the way they were...so we should not be turning this clan upside, and change it, especially not because most of EW left over the score-keeper. | Dear clannies,
As I told you, you are the most important persons here. I don't want to enter details about how I reached this position because it's not a nice story. But now that I am here (until a new leader will be voted by your representatives), I need your suggestions about what should we do to get out this crisis. I am open to any suggestion (including for a new leadership until the clan leaders/representatives will decide the faith of this clan). I will listen each of you and I will make public the suggestion for you to vote for them. Don't forget I am just am GB lover as each of you is and now I need your help to keep this dream of having a common place to meet alive. Thank you!
Best regards,
CGS
Firstly, I would have to disagree with makmak saying CGSMCMLXXV has no open conflicts with anyone. There is a long standing disagreement between CGSMCMLXXV and myself, and I doubt anyone aware of the situation would agree that I am probably his harshest critic.
*However*, I have, as yet, seen no evidence that CGSMCMLXXV intends to run this clan other than the way that was originally intended.
You will notice that CGSMCMLXXVs message about the mini-tournament was clearly labelled as *proposed*, and stated that it was only intended as placeholder until a new tournament can be agreed upon. I imagine his intention was to make the suggestion and see if there was any major objections from other clan members. Personally I don't think that it is absolutely necessary to have a tournament running in the clan 24/7. I think that it would be fine to have a short break until the leadership and other details can be ironed out, but that's just my opinion.
IMO we should give CGSMCMLXXV an opportunity to show us whether he can run the clan properly. He was willing to donate his time to assist with tournament scoring, which is likely why Modi set him as the new interim clan leader. I trust Modis judgement in this.
CGXMCMLXXVs recent message (quoted above) makes it clear that there will be an election in the near future when the leadership of the clan can properly be determined. I don't see that he has proposed or undertaken any changes to the way the clan is run at this point, just a new suggested tournament format until things settle down.
So to sum up, I think CGSMCMLXXV should be temporarily allowed the opportunity to retain the leadership of the clan, at least until such time as a proper vote of the membership can be organised to determine a preferred leader. While I don't necessarily agree with the need for a mini-tournament to "fill the gap" until another event can be agreed upon, it's not really my place to decide.
Have FUn
Grunge | Ok guys!
Arctic has kindly agreed to become leader of this clan which overcomes all problems with politics and peoples alliances etc so I am closing this post.
Thanks Arctic. | | closed by Lord DEATHisNEAR (2009-11-11 03:21:26) |
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