| Author | caravan weaker after lost? |
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Hi
I lost in min ap about 100-150 caravans in row, and they are still impossible, but its not about the question i want to ask, the question is:
does caravan is weaker after lost?
I know how it works, that there are types in different faction caravans, and lost against de with shrews for example dont give weaker de caravan with hydras but.....i lost about 5 caravans with skelbow inside, more than 4x1k skelbow and zombies around, and now i had stronger caravan of the same type, more zombies and infected around and skelbow still over 1kx4, maybe its bug or what?
thanks for answers |
| maybe try to switch faction and see? |
| you may not be noticing the changes =) they get weaker 2% each lose |
you may not be noticing the changes =) they get weaker 2% each lose
it explains why i had to lose a lot only to get 1 win |
they get 2%-3% weaker each time you lose against them, but there is a floor.
You cant lose thousand times and meet a caravan with 1 unit;
eventually losing doesnt make them anymore weaker, thats when you reached the floor. |
so like You said Sven91 there is a "floor" the weakest caravan as could be? I was always wondering of that. But still such a caravan like 4x over 1k skelbow inside is on new big arena impossible, I know Im playing min ap, but still.
If there is a chance or other opinions, maybe Arctic or someone then pls make a little discussion, cause if i reached the "floor" then its stupid to play more min ap caravans and loosing
thx for info ;) |
Also the fact that they get weaker 2% (in general caravan strenght) doesnt mean they really get weaker each time you meet them again. Example: Caravan gets 2% weaker but there are cyclops instead of orcs. More monks and less farmers. Cavalery instead of grif, devil instead of hellhorse.
Most players believe there are same types of caravans with creatures that can change to their upgraded brothers or even orc <-> cyclops, ghost <-> vamp. This way, it is really hard to notice if they have lower difficulty. |
gurumao made a list;
https://www.lordswm.com/photo_pl_albums.php?id=60371
that are all different caravan types sorted by faction
So if you lose, it only reduces the strenght for that caravan, and not all caravans of that level.
So unless you lose like 200 caravans, you wont notice a difference |
| yea, i've lost one of the giant devil stack caravans with succ around it, next time there was just less succ more devil; didn't help at all lol |
I'm not sure, but I think u are far away from floor.
I had 411*4 skel bow and after more than 15 loses, now I have 350*4 skel bow.
So the mechanism does work so far.
some times u may confuse about the zombie and bows size, just after more than
10 loses then compare the size change.
Good luck. |
I'm not sure, but I think u are far away from floor.
youre only level 10.
As far as I know, flood is only level dependant (and maybe also faction, but I dont think so) |
cause if i reached the "floor"
You can be sure you did not reach the floor with 5 or 10 losses :)
What Omega said is mostly close to the truth.... caravan strength is measured in a way that cannot be translated in a linear fashion to difficulty for players.
For example a stack of - say - 100 griffins could be considered by the game equal in strength to 60 cavarly. You lose caravan and next time after 100 griffins you might meet 58-59 cavarly stack which is for most factions far harder to deal with than griffin stack. However caravan is - according to game algorithm easier. Or for the zombie-skeleton caravan you refer to - less skeletons and more zombies generally make easier caravan since zombies are probably considered by the game stronger than skeletons , however they are far easier to deal with because they are slow.
Essentially the number of caravans you need to lose depends on how much you pushed it earlier with artifacts. For example if you beat 200 or 300 caravans in the past ambushing in full AP - you might need to get more than 500-600 losses to make them playable in min AP ( and still would need a lot more losses to start winning consistently ). This number will be far greater if you want to start winning with a faction generally weaker in ambushing. If you ambushed as DE before and you want now to ambush as - say - knight , expect an overhead of many more extra losses needed to reach to the "reasonable difficulty" threshold.
I personally don't think min AP ambushing is worth the trouble though - using 20-25 ap to get some defense greatly enhances your chances to win with a small extra cost and the added benefit is you get a very good amount of fsp when losing. For example I was ambushing for a while with SoM and Defender shield ( cost/battle around 160g ) and was getting around 0.2-0.3fsp on a loss on average. Now added steel helmet, steel cuirass and amulet of luck and with about 130-140g extra per battle it is usually between 0.4 and 0.5 fsp gain ( as much as you get on a WIN on MG quest or hunt ). |
for Sven91:
Each lvl increases the caravan size by 20%. So suppose the floor increases
by the same rate, 1.2^3 = 1.728. 350*1.728 = 604. So 600x4 skel would be
more likely a floor than 1000*4. |
I know as i wrote in one of the first msg that there are different types of caravan faction, I know that, but like I said i had 4 or 5 times the same strange and even harder after some looses
4x over 1k skelbow or 3xover 100 misstresse
it very hard, Im loosing many caravans and I dont see its easier, the same is with knight caravan and others, loosing more than 100 caravans should make maybe little easier but still easier
I wanted to say that after change into new field bigger, my caravans got almost 100% harder, I had 4x650 skelbow inside, and after update i catched caravan with 1,3k skelbow inside it was mission impossible ;) but I was hoping that some looses will get me more chances, second example is i had 800 gargs before update in bush, after I was rly surprised when I saw 2k gargs in one stack and magies and genies, its mission impossible too, for me
so it would be nice "for sure" how does it works now, I know how it worked before update
thx for msg's its important to get answers :)from all thiefs |
https://www.lordswm.com/warlog.php?warid=485349738
see this battle.
so 550x4 is not floor even for lv 14.
and elves should have smaller size of caravans than barb. |
for dziadu:
Most of time it just needs patience. If you pay too much attention on how
much size reduced after each loss, that will be a pain.
I used knights to reduce the size of caravans and I lose so many that
I was totaly numb about loses.
Then I switched to wiz and I can win quit some ambush now, so the size
of caravans did reduce. |
I am not really sure there is such a thing as a floor anyway... or if it is it would be too low.
Considering the 2-3% decrease every time applies to the new value of caravan strength it would take a huge amount of losses to reach 1 unit ( for example losing 150 times with 2% decrease would make caravan have still 5% of monsters - considering there are like 40 different caravans that's 6k losses to reach to that point ).
However you are going to start winning a lot before reaching that point so caravan difficulty will increase again and from that point on it will be fluctuating - with a bonus number of losses given from gaining a new combat level. |
mission impossible
Apart from bigger caravans, the AI was also made smarter.... |
ok thx all for answers, now I know, what i wanted to know, so there is a sense to loose some more battles, cause caravans are weaker
merry christmas everyone ;) much exp,skill and the most important weaker caravans ;) |
| closed by dziadu (2009-12-22 16:40:28) |
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