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any and all loans are against the rule


Authorany and all loans are against the rule
Until some mod will be pitiful enough to close this thread...
I have to say further to fusei:

You just added more personal points of views about rules applied according specific policies. In any serious law court we wouldn't go too far with that.
But this is a game, no law court. Ok.

Anyway, logic remains logic: if "that's simply not how things are handled here", can I have your answer to "how things are handled here"?

Personally, I would never "come up with something like begging is only asking for money without promising to return it". (Above, I was suggesting to look to some dictionary for definition).
If something is not doubtless in law a precedent is set. This is done by a judge so it will necessarily reflect his point of view and if you think thatís wrong you can appeal to a higher authority, but judges wonít simply look up something in a dictionary.

how things are handled here
That's what I tried to formulate in post 16 and someone who has to apply it thought I was pretty close.
A rule about what can or cant be done in forums should be in the forum rules. I read the forum rules and the local rules before i made the "begging" post. Niether of those rules said anything about it. I didnt look in the general rules, I unknowingly broke one of them. Thats my fault and i can deal with it. What bugs me is a 24 ban with no warning by a mod who insultingly calls me lazy and blind for my inabiltity to see a rule that wasnt in the obvious place that someone would go looking for such a rule.

general rule 3.1 is totally vague and unspecific, maybe saying anyone who ever got a loan should be punished is a bit much, but it got attention. If you are going to punish people for breaking rules, those rules should be well defined and in their proper place. At the very least this incident should get a "no begging in forums rule" that is actually stated in the forums rules, as that is the logical place a person would look for rules about forums.

mrniceguy isnt punished for obvious insults because mods and high levels around here are elitist $@^& and dont punish their own. punish him or prove me right.

omega22 says "Begging ussually doesnt end with banning but with an easy lock of the topic and warning. But when the creator creates more and more threads, while instead of trying to understand is just looking for reasons why the whole world is unfair and against him, what else is there to do?"
this isnt actaully what happened at all. people posted links to the rules that supposedly said i couldnt beg in forums. these were the same rules i had looked at before i made the post and they said nothing about no begging. i posted the full text of these rules to show that they DID NOT say anything about begging. if that wasnt me trying to understand, then what the hell was it?
the second topic i opened was entitled "how does one get a loan if it is forbidden to ask for it?" That is obviously a question seeking understanding. general rule 3.1 simply says no begging for money, it is horribly vague and needs clarification. at what point did i say the whole world is unfair and against me?
[Player banned by moderator Skunder until 2010-01-25 00:42:53 // Abbreviated curses. I'm quite (as in 'totally') sure you didn't mean we are 'puppies'. Not to mention your facts are skewed.
high levels around here are elitist $@^&

1.10.1. Abbreviations used to insult a player are considered foul language and their usage will be punished.

I was banned for 6 hours for using 5 stars in similar context. :-(

Normal procedure would be to direct your questions in one thread instead of creating 3 of the kind. But thats not up to me. The anger here has gone terribly far. :-(
you read all that and your only response is i cant use $@%^&* to mask words?
you have no proof i wasnt calling him an elitist puppy :}
if i get banned for that i expect mrniceguy to receive equal punishment(and i do not think "%#^$&*" masked word fits the definition of abbreviation, but i will bow to precedence in this case and refrain from using masked words in the future)
if you believe the anger here has gone terribly far then make a meaningful response to something i said, and lets have a discussion.

so i ask you directly omega22. do you believe general rule 3.1 to be specific and well defined?
do you believe that something about not begging should be put in the forum rules or the local forum rules, as this is the logical place that a person would look for such a rule?
anyone else who wishes to answer one of these questions is welcome to also.
do you believe general rule 3.1 to be specific and well defined?

Yes with common sense one can understand that begging or tricking people to give you gold is against the rules and it is not allowed through any game channel. Asking people you know for loan is always up to theirs reaction, they can report you anytime if they feel offended.

Addition to forum rules: Yes, but on the other hand, it would be 1.duplicate rule, 2. making the rule book too large is not very helpful.

We were talking in the past about option to extend the rules that are vague. They were extended. There are those new green subrules. But if you wanted to protect players against EVERY situation that might occur, the book of rules would be 10 pages long. And then you have new players: Please read this rulebook, it takes only 10 hours to read and understand.

I know of few another rule holes that are even abused to send gold between your own accounts. But these actions can be punished nevertheless. After all, common sense should be above all. I know it can lead to abuse, but there are means to prevent that too.

I was banned for 3 days for breaking a local rule that no one could explain. Sometimes its up to the "prosecutor" to decide the punisment and they are not obligated to explain the reason. There are rules at every section giving it`s guardians practically limitless power.
i disagree, the "prosecutor" is obligated to have a reason
punishment without reason isnt punishment, its simple abuse
[Post deleted by moderator Pang // ]
[Post deleted by moderator Pang // ]
1. masking word isnt allowed, no matter what the actual words are before masking.

2. 'no begging', the rule is there, nothing much to argue. it always lead to flood, spam, insult and so on. hence, it is restricted strictly on public. ask loan in private channel will do.

3. rules can be extended depend on case. that's why you got local rules. but, it doesnt mean you are free to get away if the rules wasn there. common sense rules still there to counter some cases.

ex: https://www.lordswm.com/forum_messages.php?tid=1840283&page=2#281784

Arctic ban him for initial flaming. do we have rules on this in your page? NO, but the punishment is still there. simple, prevention is needed before it went worse. common sense apply here

4. you are not allowed to argue rules on public too.

5. well, since you had read those rules, you should know mod's action might be wrong and you still NOT allowed to question it on public.

6. yet, sometimes, not all common sense apply. just like what you say and i do not think "%#^$&*" masked word fits the definition of abbreviation. 'you dont think' doest mean you can escape from the trouble.
I do not think there is a rule against a person who offers a loan to another.
How about me?

I loan anyone who really need some gold like 1k-5k

Good for a gambler... It is forbidden?
the "prosecutor" is obligated to have a reason
punishment without reason isnt punishment, its simple abuse

If you read carefully, I didnt say prosecutor isnt obligated to HAVE a reason. He isnt obligated to EXPLAIN his/her reasons over and over.
I do not think there is a rule against a person who offers a loan to another.
..because there isnt. This topic was attempt of applying "reductio ad absurdum" to prove a point. Where direct logic fails, we try other means.
I didnt look in the general rules, [...] What bugs me is a 24 ban with no warning by a mod who insultingly calls me lazy

I didn't get it. You are too lazy to read the rules and got insulted by someone that is calling this behavior lazy?

Keep in mind that we all agree to have read and accept the rules, before we could finish creating our character.
And don't forget point 1.1 of General Rules, which saying that Ignorance of the rules doesn't relieve the responsibility for violation.


1.1. Ignorance of the following rules does not relieve the responsibility for their violation.

Therefore, I suggest you to close this topic. Acknowledge that you had break the rule, and you have been punished for it. Move on... and don't do that again. It is so simple... no need to discuss this anymore, because it won't change anything.
beyond the 'mods are elitist such and suches', comments against mods - which this really is - should be redirected to the Secretary. another lil' rule we've bypassed...
closed by Skunder (2010-01-25 03:51:12)
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