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| Author | Dreadbane's attack |
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for narutoayan:
It's random Just like the madness attack of berserkers...
I have seen my berserkers attacking 1 unit of skeleton to 150 ogre magi...Though I can't predict that which creature he is going to attack. | | p.s- Above condition applies when there are 2 units at same distance from berserker or adjacent to berserker. | | Since we are ot able to recogise, the attacks direction so we are calling it random? | | I would like to get a 100% sure answer, till then I will also try to understand dreadbanes attack | I have seen my berserkers attacking 1 unit of skeleton to 150 ogre magi...Though I can't predict that which creature he is going to attack.
I see..most probably you're right, but I think in such cases the lower coordinate troop is chosen..did you experience this?
I have a feeling that both of these are not random :) | lower coordinate troop is chosen
Yes, I had seen that often! | @20
how do you guess it's wrong if you have no clue? ;)
test it Vs your battles and see where it doesn't fit.
Criticals are calculated individually, AFAIK | @20
how do you guess it's wrong if you have no clue? ;)
test it Vs your battles and see where it doesn't fit.
Criticals are calculated individually, AFAIK
I support you.
This is my thought -
1.For madness, if equidistant, then the troop that has a smaller coordinate, that is, is more towards the top-left, is preferred.
2.In case of Criticals and luck etc., the chance can be calculated, and even though it may look random, yet I have myself, and have seen many others predict when luck would befall. It's all just a game of probability, but isn't random.
3.For the dreadbane attack, since lower coordinate rule has been violated, then it's possible that troops are chosen as per troop preference. eg. GMB are chosen over farmers. Just like AI would have attacked..so more preference to shooters.
The 3rd point is what we have to discuss about :) | hmm.. i wasn't talking about "lower coordinate".
If you look at my scheme, it's the "all-around" system that works. I haven't seen a fight where that doesn't work.. can you show me one, if you have?
About luck & crit, remember the "must be/mustn't be" rule: you can easily predict when and where it will fall, by simply counting the times it didn't happen or it did trigger before, as explained in help:
The probability of morale/luck triggers = F^(1+[moves befallen so far]-[moves not befallen so far]*F/(1-F)), whence F is Min(0.5;luck/10) or Min(0.5;morale/10), each stack having its own independent counters for morale and luck.
In general, troops are befallen with morale/luck according to its normal probability. In case if it hasn't trigger for several consecutive turns, the odds of getting it on the next turn increase each time, and vice versa. In a hypothetical experiment with infinite amount of triggering, the general probability is still equal to 10% per morale/luck point. | 2.In case of Criticals and luck etc., the chance can be calculated, and even though it may look random, yet I have myself, and have seen many others predict when luck would befall. It's all just a game of probability, but isn't random.
he probability of morale/luck triggers = F^(1+[moves befallen so far]-[moves not befallen so far]*F/(1-F)), whence F is Min(0.5;luck/10) or Min(0.5;morale/10), each stack having its own independent counters for morale and luck.
omg guys just read what i said!! i know that luck or critical r not random!! what i mean is that when sprites or efk hit multiple targets, for example three targets, and get critical dmg, ONLY ONE OF THE THREE TARGETS r dealt the critical damage! and which one of them is RANDOM!!! now stop arguing over that :/@20
how do you guess it's wrong if you have no clue? ;)
sorry if i prove to be wrong but i already mentioned i am not sure, as for how i guessed its wrong is because i think its random, and i am almost sure about that.
Criticals are calculated individually, AFAIK
What?? you and narutoayan are just totally misunderstanding me. all the formulas and what not u guys gave, i know all that! read my comments again :/ i made it as clear as possible man =.=.=.=
It's random Just like the madness attack of berserkers...
+1 to ayush20
guys, just ask an experienced player or administrator, this is not a section for debates ok. | ok, i'll stop here, just mind to notice that: you asked a question, people tried to help you find an answer. Of course it does create debate because it is no easy answer to give.
I have studied the general mechanisms of the game, and that is where my mapping came from: if you say "nah, don't like it, my nose feels it's random" then it's logic Vs instinct.. can't help, there.
I gave you science, that's all i had.
About crit, that has not much to do with this thread, you misunderstood me:
I have no doubt that you know the formulas very well, but what you may have missed is that multiple target units like EFK are still Under the "did it/didn't" spell: in short, when they hit several target, luck and crit params are calculated one after each other for every target, so every time luck triggers on one stack, it doesn't on the next, and so on.
That is why multiple luck/crit triggers on a same hit are extremely rare.
But I believe that a 5 luck EFK surrounded by 6-9 enemies could very well trigger a couple luck or crit at once. But no, i don't have a combat to show to support this idea. It just fits the general game mechanics as they seem to work. Like boson was a "probably true" event before it got proved.
Guyb out. | @guyb
i am sorry if you were offended by what i said, i absolutely dont mean to offend anybody. yeah you r right that it is a very difficult question to answer and it should be instead asked to someone else who is more experienced about dwarves :)
about luck and critical triggering at the same time, to me it happens every hunt :) if u mean luck as well as multiple criticals in the same strike, it happens but rather rarely. suppose i hit 3 stacks of enemies, if i have luck ALL of them will receive double damage, but if i have critical only ONE will receive double damage. if i have luck and critical together(happens very often) then two of them will receive double damage and only one will receive three times damage(not four times). however, sometimes multiple criticals happen on the same strike, so instead of 1 getting 3 times and 2 getting 2 times, it will be 2 of them getting 3 times and the remaining one getting two times. however, what i am trying to say is that there ARE things in this game that r random, for eg. if u can deal 100-200 dmg, there is NO WAY to predict how much u will deal. similarly, if u deal a single critical to 3 stacks, and only one receives the critical damage, i can assure u its 100% random. luck or critical chances dont depend on the targeted stack but the attacking stack, so there is an equal chance, always, on which of the three(or as many targets there are) will be attacked.
More importantly, i am no hawking to oppose the boson theory but i can assure u that there are multiple thing in this game that r random and this dreadbanes thing is not certainly random but certainly NOT random either.
Q&H is about receiving opinions, and if opinions conflict, i believe it is better to ask someone more knowledgeable :)
sorry again guyb, i mean no offence, please dont mind :)
good luck everyone ^^ | #29 - Yes, I know that you are talking about something different. What I meant was that I am with your idea of "it is not random" ;)
#30 -
1. My second point wasn't really a reply to you, but rather a general statement..
2.Our purpose here is to get to the answer. Debates are the best way to do so. This isn't any personal war, just a healthy discussion that will allow us to reach to a conclusion, as well as expand our own knowledge.
3.About criticals, I'm not sure, but when it comes to multiple attacks, I think luck can trigger only on the targeted stack..although I think I'm wrong..please post some battle links to prove otherwise.
But I would still say that both madness and dreadbane attack are not random. | @33
yeah, doesnt matter :) i just mean its a difficult question and we r all guessing so better it is to ask someone who knows for sure.
critical happens to only one(or rarely 2) of all the attacked stacks but luck is always applied on all the attacked stacks. watch any elf hunt(maybe even one of mine) u will see it right away | Elf: 9 (4283.09) +1016.9
wait what? u r an elf too :O u should know something like that, or am i misunderstanding ur question? sorry if i am. | wait what? u r an elf too :O u should know something like that, or am i misunderstanding ur question? sorry if i am.
Well 2 things,
I'm a complete noob..and secondly, I never paid attention to these things..even if I did, it's been a long time haha.
Just post some battles of that please :P | @36
https://www.lordswm.com/war.php?lt=-1&warid=685996863
look at that battle. when sprites attack 2 guys with critical, one get half dmg of the other but with luck they both get doubled damage. | I see..most probably you're right, but I think in such cases the lower coordinate troop is chosen..did you experience this?
I have a feeling that both of these are not random :)
I have alot of combats to explain the randomness , But it'll require alot of effort and difgging up for the same combats.
But I'll give an easy example to proov it -
S1S2S3
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S4 | S10
S5--B--S11
S6 | S12
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S7S8S9
Where B= berserkers , S= shrew(same stack , let's say 50 of each)
Can you predict the direction and target of madness attack? If you can then I might agree that it's not random... Same thing goes for dreadbane chain lightnig. | Above figured was messed even I made it correct , So I made a new one. There's some long string violations but It couldn't BE posted correct without these.
---S1S2S3---
-----|----
-S4--|--S10-
-S5--B--S11-
-S6--|--S12-
-----|-----
---S7S8S9--
- = battle field tiles. | Strange , It still got messed up in row 2 , row 6..
What I meant to say is that , All enemies are at same distance from berserker , S2 is at vertically top and S8 vertically down from berserker. |
This topic is long since last update and considered obsolete for further discussions.
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