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| Author | ST ATB Usage |
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http://daily.heroeswm.ru/newscom.php?i=survival-tournament-guide
Can someone kindly explain this to me in understandable words? :D | | if a smoneone help you, please tell him help me also :) | Two fundamental ATB rules:
1. All new wave creatures are set to be 0.5 ATB.
2. When a new wave appears, it is always you (not the enemy) to take the first move. i.e. You will always have one creature set to be 1 ATB (actually more than 1 due to discrete ATB gauge, but not for discussion here). This creature is the next creature to move after you finish a wave.
Therefore, we can deduct:
2a. When a new wave appears, all your creatures receive "free ATB burst" at the length of (1 - (your first-to-act creature's ATB) / (that creature's initiative)).
Example: You finish with your shrews and the next creature to move are ladons (7 initiative) with 0.7 ATB. When you enter a new wave. All your creatures receive free ATB accumulation equals to (0.3 / 7 * their respective initiative).
The ATB trick is simply to maximize this free burst:
1. Decide the creature (and the move) with which you are going to finish. Optimally this should be a low-morale, high-initiative creature. Or simply the enemy creature itself.
2. For any other creature, hover on "Wait" button to see their next turn's position when waiting.
2a) When the position is *BEFORE* the finishing creature, wait.
2b) When the position is *AFTER* the finishing creature, defend, (move at your own risk).
3. Repeat step 2 until you normally finish the wave according to the plan.
4. While the new wave appears. Your next creature is to move. Notice this creature formerly chose "Defend" when "Wait" makes it after the finishing creature. Which means this is at least 0.5 turns apart from your finishing creature.
5. All your creatures, including the finishing creature, receives ATB bonus equivalent to, if not more than, (0.5 / the next creature's init) * their respective init.
That's all. | | The formula in step 5, would now guarantee that your finishing creature, being a high-initiative one, can act before the enemy creatures, which start to grow from 0.5 on. | A typical example:
Suppose you have four stacks:
Hobgoblins (Init=10), Orc chiefs (Init=11), Ogre magi (Init=8), Thunderbirds (Init=12).
You would like to kill a wave with your Thunderbirds, and wants it to act before the next wave's creature Vermins (Init=13). Is this possible?
Without knowledge of ATB trick, or simply by waiting, you are taking a high risk of losing the turn.
At turn X, your Thunderbirds can act. You made the above decision, and now you should plan wisely with your other creatures.
Let's say the current ATB values are:
Turn X: Thunderbirds (1.00), Hobgoblins (0.76), Orc chiefs (0.52), Ogre magi (0.63)
You will expect the Thunderbirds next turn to be at Turn X+0.9.
Turn X+0.9: Thunderbirds (1.08), Hobgoblins (1.66), Orc chiefs (1.51), Ogre magi (1.26)
Of course, all other creatures will have their turn in this process. The ATB trick is actually using "defend/wait" methods to make the ATB of other creatures as little as possible. | Let's list the turns (by 0.1 intervals, according to the actual algorithm):
Turn X+0.0: Thunderbirds (1.00), Hobgoblins (0.76), Orc chiefs (0.52), Ogre magi (0.63)
Turn X+0.1: Thunderbirds (0.12), Hobgoblins (0.86), Orc chiefs (0.63), Ogre magi (0.71)
Turn X+0.2: Thunderbirds (0.24), Hobgoblins (0.96), Orc chiefs (0.74), Ogre magi (0.79)
Turn X+0.3: Thunderbirds (0.36), Hobgoblins (1.06), Orc chiefs (0.85), Ogre magi (0.87)
Hover on "wait" button, it will "preview" the initiative bar "if" your hob chooses to wait: In case of waiting, your hob's next turn will be at X+0.8, which will be before Thunderbirds' next turn. So you should wait.
Turn X+0.4: Thunderbirds (0.48), Hobgoblins (0.66), Orc chiefs (0.96), Ogre magi (0.95)
Turn X+0.5: Thunderbirds (0.60), Hobgoblins (0.76), Orc chiefs (1.07), Ogre magi (1.03)
The orc chiefs who has greater ATB value acts first. Hover on "wait" button, it shows that if your orcs waits, its next turn will be at X+0.9, the same as Thunderbirds, but with ATB set at 1.01, it appears to be after the Thunderbirds. So you should defend.
Turn X+0.5: Thunderbirds (0.60), Hobgoblins (0.76), Orc chiefs (0.07), Ogre magi (1.03)
The ogre magi acts while the time is still X+0.5. Hover on "wait" button, it tells you its next turn, upon waiting, arrives at Turn X+1.2 after the Thunderbirds. Defend.
Turn X+0.6: Thunderbirds (0.72), Hobgoblins (0.86), Orc chiefs (0.18), Ogre magi (0.11)
Turn X+0.7: Thunderbirds (0.84), Hobgoblins (0.96), Orc chiefs (0.29), Ogre magi (0.19)
Turn X+0.8: Thunderbirds (0.96), Hobgoblins (1.06), Orc chiefs (0.40), Ogre magi (0.27)
Definitely the hobgoblins need to be defending.
Turn X+0.9: Thunderbirds (1.06), Hobgoblins (0.16), Orc chiefs (0.51), Ogre magi (0.35)
Now finish the wave with your thunderbirds. You don't get a morale burst let's say.
Turn X+1.0: Thunderbirds (0.18), Hobgoblins (0.26), Orc chiefs (0.62), Ogre magi (0.43)
Notice at this point. No creature can act. The ATB will not stop for now until you have someone that can act.
Turn X+1.1: Thunderbirds (0.30), Hobgoblins (0.36), Orc chiefs (0.73), Ogre magi (0.51)
Turn X+1.2: Thunderbirds (0.42), Hobgoblins (0.46), Orc chiefs (0.84), Ogre magi (0.59)
Turn X+1.3: Thunderbirds (0.54), Hobgoblins (0.56), Orc chiefs (0.95), Ogre magi (0.67) | Turn X+1.4: Thunderbirds (0.66), Hobgoblins (0.66), Orc chiefs (1.06), Ogre magi (0.75)
Now orc chiefs can act. That's the point when new wave appears and their ATB set to 0.50.
Turn X+1.4: Thunderbirds (0.66), Hobgoblins (0.66), Orc chiefs (1.06), Ogre magi (0.75), Vermins (0.50), Angels (0.50).
It goes on.
Turn X+1.5: Thunderbirds (0.78), Hobgoblins (0.76), Orc chiefs (0.17), Ogre magi (0.83), Vermins (0.63), Angels (0.61).
Turn X+1.6: Thunderbirds (0.90), Hobgoblins (0.86), Orc chiefs (0.28), Ogre magi (0.91), Vermins (0.76), Angels (0.72).
Turn X+1.7: Thunderbirds (1.02), Hobgoblins (0.96), Orc chiefs (0.39), Ogre magi (0.99), Vermins (0.89), Angels (0.83).
Congratulations! Your Thunderbirds successfully acted before the new wave's Vermins. | | awesome explenation, thank you SwiftGirl! | | I didn't understand it much, can someone please further dumb it down? | Thunderbirds (1.00), Hobgoblins (0.76), Orc chiefs (0.52), Ogre magi (0.63)
Where did these values come from? | | Wow thanks a lot swiftgirl! :D | for MarineBiologist:
I didn't understand it much, can someone please further dumb it down?
If you do not follow the explanation, I wouldn;t worry too much, I think swiftgirl explained it very clearly, and would be suprised if anyone could do a significantly better job.
However, the important bit is being able to use it (eiher ST tournaments or conspirators mercenary quests (I am assuming these follow the same rules)
So follow this, the most critical but being step 2
1. Decide the creature (and the move) with which you are going to finish. Optimally this should be a low-morale, high-initiative creature. Or simply the enemy creature itself.
2. For any other creature, hover on "Wait" button to see their next turn's position when waiting.
2a) When the position is *BEFORE* the finishing creature, wait.
2b) When the position is *AFTER* the finishing creature, defend, (move at your own risk).
3. Repeat step 2 until you normally finish the wave according to the plan.
4. While the new wave appears. Your next creature is to move. Notice this creature formerly chose "Defend" when "Wait" makes it after the finishing creature. Which means this is at least 0.5 turns apart from your finishing creature.
5. All your creatures, including the finishing creature, receives ATB bonus equivalent to, if not more than, (0.5 / the next creature's init) * their respective init. | for Lord MilesTeg:
I understood those steps actually :)
I just don't get where those numbers are coming from in the explanation :) | for MarineBiologist:
As far as I understand the number describes your spot on the ATB "race", with 0.01 being you just had your turn and 0.99 being you are almost at your turn. | | really interesting, thanks Swiftgirl :) | nice work on the explanation guys!
thanks all! :) | Thanks Swiftgirl, really nice explanation!
I just don't get where those numbers are coming from in the explanation :)
That's probably a random situation at first, and later on it is where units are in Arctic's metaphore of a lap. Then it's just math where progression on each step on the ATB is 0.01 per ini for each 0.1 turn (thunderbird is 12 ini and so moves by 0.12 per step in Swiftgirl's exemple). | | I had a question, is there any difference between defending and waiting twice? | There isn't much difference except:
1) When you are buffed/debuffed by means of "ACTIONS", say poisoner's poison or sphynx's onset. Waiting will cause it to trigger twice as fast.
2) If you are buffed/debuffed by means of "TURNS", say any holy/dark magic. Waiting will cause it to wear off half a turn earlier, if and only if, it is to wear off at a point between 0 and 0.5 ATB. Due to the discretion of ATB gauge.
3) Waiting at the cost of 200 tribal spirit and defending only 30.
4) Waiting raises your defense by 0 and defending 30%.
To sum up. If you are not buffed/debuffed, and you are not tribal. Waiting twice is identically equal to defending. | for SwiftGirl:
Thanks! :)
I have another question and I think it might be related to your 2nd point. I usually have 0 sp with hero, so when I bless/rapid my troops I check to see if my hero comes after them by hovering on wait button or not, if yes that should mean the troop comes within the 0.5 turns so I cast a spell on it. However, it sometimes doesn't stay till my troops turn, do you know why? |
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