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| Author | Lets discuss alt tribals and alt dwarves |
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What do you think their strategies, creature numbers and racials be? For example tamer DE having no tier 2 (termagrants), but more minotaurs, what do you think will be the main units of alt dwarves and tribals?
Lets discuss their creatures. Since already created ones reflect ones from homm5, I will take their abilities from there.
Lets start with dwarf:
Tier 1 - Mountain sentries - Lose fortification, but gain immovability. I think they will be as useless as Veterans.
Tier 2 - Harpooners. Lose No Melee Penalty and mayhem, gain pull. I believe they will be used in low numbers, not for the damage but for the pull (1 harpooner can pull 100 dragons). Will be an insanely good ability to misposition shooters or allow yourself or teammate to get the first hit.
Tier 3 - Whitebear Riders. Lose Paw knock, gain roar. Basicly after every attack they attempt to fear an enemy, wont proc as often as paw knock but certainly more useful.
Tier 4 - Battle ragers. Lose berserk, gain stun, extra damage to large creatures and ability to deal more damage and gain stats after taking damage. I think they will be one of the primary damage dealers, considering the extra damage to large creatures.
Tier 5 - Rune Keepers. This version of priests also have Evasion and Fire Wall is replaced by Fire ball. I have no idea how useful can this creature be, since he loses the star shaped attacks. Still has the mark of fire tho.
Tier 6 - Fire Thanes (Dreabanes). Works the same as the invoker (even has the avenge ability), but that avenge only hits one creature. Also loses the lightng chain, but gains a chance to trigger flame wave to the direction behind enemy. Would work with mark of fire if the damage is elemental. Not as destructive with Retrubution rune as invoker.
Tier 7 - Lava dragons. Loses magma shield (which isnt that useful IMO), gains lava breath. Attacks 2 stacks with dragon breath, leaves the tiles he attacked on fire (similar to fire wall). Certainly more useful than magma dragons, good to smoke out shooters.
Maybe they will give em darkness or nature magic, I can see that working. Possibly chaos magic build would work, if rune keepers could trigger dof with their fireball. Low on ranged power tho, with nerfed priests and spearman damage.
Alright, tribals turn.
Tier 1 - Goblin Witch Doctors. Has an ability to defile the magic of a caster, randomly making it weaker, cost more mana, completely deny it, lower skill or spell power. However, defile can backfire and benefit the caster in the oposite way. Loses traps. Risky unit. This ability can be used on heroes too so it could be a great chaos mage counter. Has less hitpoints so will benefits shamans less.
Tier 2 - Centaur Marauders. Loses maneuvur, gains no melee penalty. IMO this creature will be used a lot. Maneuvur allows centaurs to shoot after being attacked, but that retaliation is really weak. With no melee penalty this creature will hit hard back.
Tier 3 - Protectors. Lose the iniative and speed of invaders, but gain double retaliation and the protect ability. Would be useful to guard centaurs or other units. If has enough tribal spirit, this unit gains unlimited retaliation, so watch out for that.
Tier 4 - Earth shamans. Lose chain lightning, gain hexing attack, and does not get retaliated against slow enemies. Combine this with a darkness caster and you get a deadly combo. Split up this creature can debuff a powerfull unit quite hard, since it does not cast the spell that is already on the creature. If the creature is debuffed with every darkness spell (not counting advanced and expert spells or decay), it simply casts disruption ray. In addition, earth shamans are powerful damagers with melee attacks.
Tier 5 - Chieftains. Lose the crusade and double strike. Gain ability to damage any allied unit on the field to speed it up. Would work insane with centaurs or shamans. Also deal quite the damage with that one hit and move pretty far.
Tier 6 - Paokai. Paokai are infinitely better than p | Oh man, I think I hit the limit. Ok, here goes the contiunity.
Tier 6 - Paokai. Paokai are infinitely better than poison wyvers. They use dreadbane like lightning attack, that splits their damage equaly between targets. Powerfull against single target too. Also gain activated ability to eat a corpse to restore health and units.
Tier 7 - Tribal Beholders. Lose crush, gain Evil eye. Lose aoe, gain a debuff! Evil eye lasts till beholder dies, so its a powerful one.
IMO this tribal will be offensive, not defensive. Lots of damage will come out of centaurs and shamans, and lots of debuffs from shamans and beholders. Goblins can also debuff mages too. Imagine that double cost empowered meteor shower. The nightmare of Dark Elves. Chieftain iniative and turn boost will make their units very fast too.
Any ideas to share? | Thanks for opening this))) I like these kind of threads.
To be completely honest: I think Alt Tribal will be COMPLETELY broken (Will explain the Chieftan thing later), and Alt Dwarf to be "Above the Average".
Of course, we will have to see their Racials, but I can tell you why:
>>> Alt Dwarf ("Above Balance" Imo):
- Alt Priests: They dont have the X Attack, so they arent to panick about really.
- Still, they have the Harpoones. Yes, as you said, 1 harpooner can pull 100 dragons.
I am not sure whether it is a Triggering, or Activated Skill (The former would mean it is does not have a 100% success), but still, it can put units out of position, or inside the range of your units, so that you or your allies hit first.
Will require a bit of Skill (Or not really much), and will be able to missposition anyone to be into your range, or Archers to put them out of their "Box" protection thing.
And... As we all know, the first who hits wins many times, very often.
- White Bear: AREA Fear (Check Homm V), no more to say, Broken :)
Its like mixing a Hell Horse with a Hydra.
- On the other hand, I can imagine the whole Class to be WAY WAY less "Tanky" as the current Dwarf is, since the overall Class has way way more Damage.
Overall more Damage, and less Hp, otherwise it would be Broken.
(Just look at Harpooners, 2-5 Dmg, against the 2-3 of Spearmen, I can assume there will be lesser numbers of it)
>>> Alt Tribal (Beyond "Broken" :P):
- Goblins: They might seem tricky, I havent tried them yet in Homm, but not really an issue.
- Protectors: Okay, this is the thing I find has a huge High Risk-High Reward.
I can imagine Alt Tribals making huge Plays, putting Protectors near Stacks that always get targeted, and receiving the attack instead and with a x2 Retal because of Vindictiveness.
Also, I can imagine Alt Tribals equip "Concentration", so that Protectors Retal first.
It will require a big big amount of Skill to play this, I like it.
- Chieftans: Sorry, this is beyond "Broken".
No matter how many units you give them, this is Broken.
Lets imagine this random situation in which you have a DD as ally:
The Temptress will have 10 Ini, not 9, because of the Aura... Too Op, sorry.
And in case Temptress does not still play first, you can cast "Fervor" on it with their skill... LOL.
Who needs a Knight Hero when you have this, and in first turn... Woah.
And not just in this situation, you can "Fervor" the allied Dwarf Bears, or the allied Cerberis, or the allied ThunderBirds...
- On the other hand... Imo, way the opposite than Alt Dwarf:
Will have way way less overall Damage than Classic Tribal (Chieftains lose Crusade, and Enforcers lose Unruly), but Imo overall more Hp, very Tanky.
Alto, High-Risk High-Reward as I mentioned with the Protector thing, a mistake can ruin your tactic.
But Chieftans are too Op man, just Fervor the allied Temptress and win the game.
I foresee MANY Alt Tribals-DD Premades/Preset Teams in CG, remember this I said.
Chieftan "Fervor" Temptress and GGWP.
Or "Fervor" Lizzard Chargers with Innate Swiftness and Tactics
Predictions :P Will see if I was right in 2017 XD | for Aurelija:
I do not think alt steppe will be offensive.steppe is already offensive with cheap attack talents.alt tribal has many defensive units and will be probably with cheap defense talents.
for Ipsen:
whining even before the alts are released,stop | for Fallen Atheros:
He wasn't whining mate. They are making predictions about alt classes based on units that have been released here and already playable in HOMM series. | for Ipsen:
whining even before the alts are released,stop
Wowow, relax.
Apparently you cant say your opinion anymore in the Forums, jeez.
This is not the first nor the second time this happens. | I am not sure whether it is a Triggering, or Activated Skill (The former would mean it is does not have a 100% success)
It is. I know because I got to controll them in a russian text quest. And yes, 1 harpooner can pull any stack. | Tbh I tried playing with protectors in pot and it's very hard to pull off; remember that to intercept the attack, you have to be next to the target and the attacker, so there are many possibilities to hit away from interception range.
Chieftain has some potency but when you pull a stack forward, you also miss an attack, so there will be OPed combinations, but that's not that different than a knight that fully buffs charmer's uni and another stack (good luck against uni with rapid/bless/skin) for exemple. | I think Alt Dwarf is gonna be boring.
Alt Tribal on the other hand, I'm excited.
As per me Earth Shamans will be Primary Melee Units, given they have the ability to do Melee Attacks with no retal for delayed units, which means they are Meant For Attack.
Following this major Damage will come from Centaurs. Who will be boosted to get first turn shot thanks to Chieftains thus eliminating part of Opponent Ranged Army beforehand.
Paokai I think will be more inspired by the Great Wyverns we had in event instead of the original Paokai. Tribal Beholders is like a nightmare for anyone. Has 6 Speed. Which also means, Alt Tribal has 3 creatures now which can reach the other end with Tactics + Innate.
Protectors will be passive. Primarily used to save Centaurs from being hit directly by 8 speed units, especially large creatures. Imagine a stack of JUST 5-10 protectors redirecting a Luck Strike from a full stack of Boar Riders. That's a game changer.
The best would be splitting Earth Shamans into 3 stacks, taking on a Single Guardian / Mino stack and getting its defense down to 0 within 2-3 turns. So funny! That said, I'm yet confused about the Goblin Witch doctors.
So darn excited to experience Alt Tribal! | 9# Lol, nice points, specifically the Earth Shaman stuff.
Imo the Alt Tribals that are able to predict them scenarios and make up interesting Talent/Recruitment Builds beforehand will be the ones that will succeed at the very moment the Class gets released.
I suppose they will have Soldier's Luck?
Because of Hexing Attack, and the Protector Cover Ally thing.
I just hope they do not make the same mistake that happened with DDs interacting with UN corpses: They could Consume them and UN couldnt Raise anymore... Op XD
I say this because of Paokais eating corpses. | for Ipsen:
Remember BW has soldier's luck too! | I suppose they will have Soldier's Luck?
Because of Hexing Attack, and the Protector Cover Ally thing.
Hexing attack triggers on every attack.
I'm yet confused about the Goblin Witch doctors.
Basicly its an activated ability. You target a caster, and then when it casts a spell, it has a chance to ruin something for it ramdonmly (severity depends on hp of goblins). For example you can double or half enemy mana (if it backdoors), increase or decrese its spell power, increase or decrese skill lvl (make expert lightning be cast as advanced lightning). They can focus heroes too. | They can focus heroes too.
WHAT.
Chaos DEs, UNs and Holy and Dark Casters dislike this. XD | | Imagine doubling the mana cost on that empowered meteor shower lel. DEs will cry | Interesting discussing the troops but without context of unique racial ability and numbers any conclusions are highly ethereal.
For instance I think when comparing Dwarf to alt dwarf there is an implicit basic assumption that they are keeping runes (or at least teh same ones).
IF you remove that assumption, then well, there is just too many possibilities. Granted using HOMM5 as a guide makes certain assumptions reasonable - however not necessarily so.
My gut instinct given the fire magic tendency of dwarf troops to have a fire magic based dwarf. This would be more balanced as everything is getting a bit might based of late - highlighting the imbalance of certain arts. However magic is slow and defensive which they do not want. So I would imagine linking in activiated abilities like hellfire but with a rune based mechanism - something like that all tied around fire magic would be sort of interesting.
As to the troops, any troop can be amazing or rubbish (to a greater or lesser extent) - its how many they give you that decides which it will be. | | My guess is that alt drawf might have cheaper chaos and offence build similar to alt Wiz. | | don't think alt dwarf needs to have chaos magic. | i have played HOMM 5 too but damn you guys are good in remembering these things :*
By the way what about all the alternate for factions from HOMM 6 those are pretty cool too right? | By the way what about all the alternate for factions from HOMM 6 those are pretty cool too right?
Portal Heroes = HoMM VI :P
Some are missing though. | Portal Heroes = HoMM VI :P
Yeah that's what, so there are chances that they will introduce those factions later in future |
This topic is long since last update and considered obsolete for further discussions.
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