| Author | Dark Elf: Retribution Talent requires Elemental Call? |
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I don't find the logic behind this. The only Dark Elf to use Elemental Call would be a Spell Caster & a Spell Caster doesn't require Morale.
Any other build which warrants the use of Retribution with Elemental Call for DE? |
for AKA:
No logic but it's only done with the purpose of balancing.
That is, admins don't want DEs getting this talent before a certain level for balancing purposes thus Elemental Call acts as a dummy talent to consume some talent points. |
| yeah i think its justified. I can't imagine playing against DE with rally + leadership + retribution talents along with other extra melee offense and tactics. |
It's complicated.
HWM was based on Heroes of Might and Magic V, which had introduced in the series the requirements of having learned certain skills in order to learn others. That was "translated" to HWM basically as it was.
Does it follow the same logic? Of course not, since in the Ubisoft game, what was at stake was a fixed character development, 100% RPG style. You were stuck with the road you had chosen. So the requirements meant that if you wanted your character to have certain skills in later levels, you had to follow a more or less specific road - and that was supposed to be meaningful.
Obviously, the fact that that "road" doesn't exist here messes with the overall logic of it all. Unlike in HoMM, here you basically go to the talent wheel, check your talent points, and play combinations around as much as you want.
Is there still some logic in it? I'd say yes, to some extent. In each branch of the wheel, talents cost the same. Having some overpowered talent require some other talent is a practical way to make it more expensive. It's like considering that for DE, "Retribution" costs 15 points.
Was there some logic fail in that "port it as it is" process? I'd say yes, too. I'd still like to know what the hell is "Soldier's luck" doing in the DE (or Battlewise Wiz) wheel. Unless your game plan is to have a full stack of Dark sibyls going around the field shadow whipping everything... |
for Lord Syrian:
I'd still like to know what the hell is "Soldier's luck" doing in the DE (or Battlewise Wiz) wheel
i have seen more than one de with soldiers luck as teamate(they do not even have dark sibyls).
also something like a tribal with weighty weapons talent and whipping ally harshly, knight with soldiers luck(at least a bit better than de with soldiers luck), and elf with dom. of life talent. |
Sure, but I wasn't referring to "nooby setups", but rather to the glaring flaws (or lack of logic, as mentioned) that are, well, somewhat annoying.
If one studies a wheel, one can see some great setups are possible further down the road. But when you calculate exactly how many talent points you need, you realize you'd have to be CL30 or even more. That's annoying, unless you're ok with waiting until the year 2075 to try it out. |
for Lord Syrian:
alt classes seems to be trying to solve this problem...in a rather ruthless way. they are just deleting most of the talents(including some interesting possible setups) |
It's probably the realization that noone will ever get there anyway. In HoMM, you could go level 40 in months. Here, it takes years and years to get to 21. Besides the useless talents, there's that logic fail in the port, as I said. You're left with the "what could've been but never will".
As Kotrin wrote, "comparing what this game is to what it could have been, can be painful at times." |
Ok, so I went to try the "Might Classic Elf with Concentration" setup. It's one that costs 74 talents points, so a no-go until you reach CL18.
So because of the requirements, you get: -30% melee dmg taken; +60% def bonus when defending, and tactics (nice, so you can place stacks one tile forward and lure attackers). And because of Concentration itself, your troops retaliate before any attack (and even stacks with no retaliation like shrews), and your trees get double retal (one before and an extra after the attack) while defending. And the trees were defending at a whopping 154 def without stoneskin. Would like to see what sort of stack could bring them down.
Does it work? I suspect it's a killer setup for as long as you're not facing a shooter horde, or a chaos/hellfire/decay setup. I tried it out (see below) and got lucky with opponent. And though it charged me with a nice buffed stack of guardians towards the end, it was clear there was no way it could chew through all my defenses.
It's fun. One of the privileges of reaching a high enough CL.
Link: https://www.lordswm.com/war.php?lt=-1&warid=819816817 |
for Lord Syrian:
I've been waiting a very long time to try Ironroot Treefolks out. And I shall wait a long time more till I will be able to do so. |
for Lord Syrian:
That setup only works against AI while wearing enchant aka survilurgs,not on even grounds |
@Fallen Atheros
My interest was not discussing the setup (it has its proven merits, if played in the right circumstances).
My point is that, for instance, you've been around for over 7 years and it's not yet available for you to play it (as Santremus hinted about his own experience). |
