Forums-->General game forum-->
1|2|3
| Author | So now when I try casting Delay or Rapid, the ATB Changes. This is COOL. |
|---|
Now that i have said it all, you tell me, whether or not it was more fun when everyone had to estimate these things besides damage dealt and suffered based on experience alone? To me the answer is plain obvious and that's all i wanted to say.
I never had to "suffer." It was pretty straightforward to calculate the damage range as an approximation, but took 5-15 seconds depending on the complexity, so it was just a waste of time.
It still is needed now, say if you are trying to predict the next few turns. But now it's just more convenient. "Experience" was never a factor anyway, you just had to spend 5-15 secs calculating. Imo this gave an advantage to those who could perform arithmetic operations kinda fast, not that I mind that, but it doesn't have anything to do with experience, it was just tedious.
In case you mean for those who didn't bother calculating at all, and instead hit solely on intuition, well intuition is useful even now when predicting even one move ahead, as you can see dmg for only your turn. | | Very good update, I love the red arrows that indicate if there's not enough resources :) | well I'm the exact player who does not bother calculation at all :(
accurate calculation is too much trouble, while estimation by experience often lead into mistake, this function is absolutely a great tool for us. | It was pretty straightforward to calculate the damage range as an approximation, but took 5-15 seconds depending on the complexity, so it was just a waste of time.
Good to know you had it so easy.
Sure its a great tool, one that throws out any need for intuition and experience out of the window. Not talking about just this change particularly, rather the trend which is obvious for all to see. | | What i like about this update is that it makes the game more based on strategy/tactics and less on luck. Experience could only get you so far, e.g. you know that "maybe my unit moves before that unit if i wasp him". Now you know for sure, and don't have to waste actions if your hopes of moving first don't realize :p In a sense it moves the battles a bit towards chess-like game. Whether that's a good thing or not depends of course on personal preferences, but for me it's a change to better. | and barbs stunning shot
not working at least for fury barb. | The only differential that seems to matter is stats along with triggering abilities and luck/morale.
This is grossely over-simplified.
This is a good necro:
https://www.lordswm.com/war.php?lt=-1&warid=856808865
This is a bad necro:
https://www.lordswm.com/war.php?lt=-1&warid=856928897
The bad necro moved in to attack badly, fell to my giants lure which allowed me to kill his vamps from start by getting them into gremlins range and away from zombies and let me block his liches afterwards. Lots of bad moves but I'll stop here really.
The good necro moved in to attack but made sure to be backed by his zombies and did not expose vamps. If I attacked his envoys he would have taken retal with zombies and I would be in range of vamps too. I did not want to let him hit me with zombies, so he forced me into not attacking even if I had units I wanted to kill into melee range. In turn I messed with his plans with my gargs right in front of envoys; if he were to move his zombies he would effectively lock his envoys from moving, that's probably why he waited with zombies instead of moving and hitting me next move.
TL;DR:
Main difference beetween the good and the bad necro is troops positioning, making sure that if I attacked his important troops, he would in turn be able to kill mine. The bad necro moved and exposed his good units from start, he was outsmarted from the opening and lost.
I'll grant you that some factions like fury barb or charmer elf have this factor almost thrown out of the window because range is almost unafected by positioning and speed 8 armies pretty much ignore that too so then yes it's all about stats, triggers and I'll add setup which I found is the main deciding factor against charmer.
It never was hidden from when i played my first battle.
Indeed, but it is the backwards suggestion, to remove information from the player to make the game more fun?
Now that i have said it all, you tell me, whether or not it was more fun when everyone had to estimate these things besides damage dealt and suffered based on experience alone? To me the answer is plain obvious and that's all i wanted to say.
I liked it more when damage was hidden, I knew that "hidden" knowledge better than most players so I could manipulate the battle that way. Now though, I think removing this kind of cryptic knowledge is a good thing, it does not require players to play tens or hundreds of PvP battles to get a clue of what will be a good or a bad move. I'm all for making early PvP easier to get more players in. Personnaly I stopped playing duels a while ago because I would just end up facing the same guys again and again, with the same setups, opening moves,... So yeah, more players for more diverse battles is what I'm hoping for PvP. I still have many tricks down my sleeve besides sneaking a wasp to get an edge over less experienced players. That was very niche use anyway, expert wasp was guaranteed to move units down a bunch and wasp or rapid/delay without talents was bound to fail more often than not. | I liked it more when damage was hidden, I knew that "hidden" knowledge better than most players so I could manipulate the battle that way. Now though, I think removing this kind of cryptic knowledge is a good thing, it does not require players to play tens or hundreds of PvP battles to get a clue of what will be a good or a bad move. I'm all for making early PvP easier to get more players in. Personnaly I stopped playing duels a while ago because I would just end up facing the same guys again and again, with the same setups, opening moves,... So yeah, more players for more diverse battles is what I'm hoping for PvP.
So the more experienced or skillful player would do well without the aids of damage indicators or atb help and this would advantage them, which is surely the aim of commanders' guild/tournaments to reward the best players. Whereas like you say this may be offputting to players new to pvp who would then lose more and be put off altogether especially at lower levels with multi's then having a much better time.
Would people agree that then with something like commanders' guild aimed at being the almost 'elite level' of pvp then these aids should be disabled in these combats, or at least an option for them with maybe more guild point rewards for wins.
Whereas group battles and duels would keep the aids and could be reworked to give better ratios for fsp so they are more inviting and could then be a place to enjoy pvp and learn ready for a higher level combat, as at the minute they serve no purpose and if they were for learning they should have an ap limit as no-one learns anything when in a 3v3 5 players join min ap and one joins in full enchanted rare set its no competition | At the end of the day...
Anything that shows/reflects an effort from admins to improve the game, is welcome.
So, even though Im not in favor of getting too much information, I like that they do stuff.
So GG WP, will see what is more to come to LWM. | | yes, i'm of the same opinion as 29. | | No longer get hit by my own ufc,good | No longer get hit by my own ufc,good
You tried that the attack area indicator works for them then? For ufc i think it would be most necessary | for IComeInPeace:
Yes it shows 2x2 attack area | | i hate this update. Makes it way easier for inexperienced players. Isn't it more fun to learn by playing alot? :( | Would people agree that then with something like commanders' guild aimed at being the almost 'elite level' of pvp then these aids should be disabled in these combats, or at least an option for them with maybe more guild point rewards for wins.
Whereas group battles and duels would keep the aids and could be reworked to give better ratios for fsp so they are more inviting and could then be a place to enjoy pvp and learn ready for a higher level combat, as at the minute they serve no purpose and if they were for learning they should have an ap limit as no-one learns anything when in a 3v3 5 players join min ap and one joins in full enchanted rare set its no competition
Group battles would certainly need some rework. As it is playing them leads to weak characters. | Sorry for Spam, one last more thought I had:
Just played 2-3 battles of MT, those 1x1 CG battles, kind of...
I must admit... This Update is so frikken "Broken"/OP for Unholy Gods, I'll explain why:
Everytime you use Raise Dead, your Hero gets pushed forward coz of Racial, + even more if you also have Sorcery Talents.
Thing is, you get to see where your Hero will be after every single Raise (Or any Spell actually with Sorcery, as I said), which lets you plan with a lot of time, since you see if enemy units can stand in corpses before your next Raise, and stuff like that, since you see where your next Hero turn will actually be.
Imo this Update is even more important than it actually seems, and for almost all factions, it secretly modifies one's Gameplay and thoughts.
Anything that changes player behaviour/Planning has impact in game. | | Well, maybe not that "Broken," but it has effect. | I must admit... This Update is so frikken "Broken"/OP for Unholy Gods, I'll explain why:
Everytime you use Raise Dead, your Hero gets pushed forward coz of Racial, + even more if you also have Sorcery Talents.
Thing is, you get to see where your Hero will be after every single Raise (Or any Spell actually with Sorcery, as I said), which lets you plan with a lot of time, since you see if enemy units can stand in corpses before your next Raise, and stuff like that, since you see where your next Hero turn will actually be.
Imo this Update is even more important than it actually seems, and for almost all factions, it secretly modifies one's Gameplay and thoughts.
Anything that changes player behaviour/Planning has impact in game.
its really good for tribal too. Tribal has rapid, delay, fear and whip hero cast. Nobody can affect ATB more than this faction. Now you can tell exactly what is going to happen to your whipped stack and decide if you'd rather perform some other action. As if this faction wasn't already too good at utilizing cheap cost rituals... but oh i'm sure its an acceptable change for so many, based on many arguments laid here. | Maybe this is to better combat AI?
I'm guessing that AI could know how much stunning shot/wasp etc, would move the target stack. | for Divit:
I don't think so. I don't really have proof but I don't think that the AI is intelligent enough to realize when exactly a wasp might help and check exactly how much it moves the enemy back and if it is enough for AI's future troops to play first.
From what I understand, AI was never able to predict future moves... this was slightly improved, so now in hunts for example, if your enchanted gargs are defending in a corner against large stacks, and the one hitting you has been reduced enough, it will move and let other stacks hit you. But an AI that can actually predict future moves to that much detail would be insanely difficult to create. |
This topic is long since last update and considered obsolete for further discussions.
1|2|3Back to topics list
|
