Forums-->Off-game forum-->
1|2
| Author | Open letter to my friends |
|---|
It appears some of you don't know why so many members recently left A&D, and some of you appear to think it's for the wrong reasons. So I'll take these next few lines for a brief explanation on my views on why some of us left - there are others whose motives I don't know. Do note that I speak only for myself; not for the others, even if I present my views on them. They are welcome to correct me if they so wish. I'm also only saying this in public because it popped up in another topic.
Every member (including myself) that was part of the ruling A&D Council left because of personal divergences with Jedi. The last issue to be addressed there was indeed about warfare, but that issue itself was not the reason for members leaving (the Council actually voted "yes" to warfare). What we all have in common is our disagreement with the way Jedi leads A&D (among others, against his own Council).
A&D did start as a minnow among giants. Our goal was deemed too ambitious by most; few believed we could deliver our intents. Yet, we did. After the merger, we proved our worth by conquering facilities and holding on to them. War was a huge menace, though: we did not have rare enchanted sets (that we do now); we did not know how to fight (which some learned in the meantime), and we weren't willing to risk it all (new "world", unkown dangers). As time passed, admins progressively tweaked clan warfare to a point that it's no longer too expensive, nor does it require that many fighters.
It's hard to explain why I left after 7 years in a few words. So I'll resort to a simple way: go to A&D profile and read the "Clan Goals". My view is that we're nowhere living up to them - and some statements there, right now, are blatant lies - A&D is not "adapting", nor is it becoming "an integral part of the total LordsWM gaming experience". Contrary to what it says there, it is very contented with what it has achieved, and it has let up its "never-ending quest of progress and growth".
Jedi is the leader, and free to do what he wants. But I won't help him subvert A&D. And before you think it's just me, think about why the active half the Council left, while the other half kept silent. It's very weird to consider we're all wrong, but... who knows, maybe Jedi is indeed the only one to see the true light.
Do keep in mind I respect Jedi's will to lead A&D as he sees fit. I write this with no bitterness, no resentment, or animosity. If the ones having a problem with his leadership are a minority, the problem has been solved: end of story. I wish all the best to A&D. | Well my question is to you all who left AnD due these fights..
If Jedi takes the right decision what u guys want , will you all join back AnD
and make it the most lively clan of .com? | Syrian only mencioned some of the problems there.
Answering chikish...I talk for myself only so no...i wont get back to AnD again no matter what they do. Wish them all the best and still have many friends there.
Im happy were i am. | :(
I feed sad for AnD
Speaking from my point of view ,
It lost its most active members :( | @syrian,
thanks for the explanation and that without getting personal ;),
I think it was needed
@chikish
domnt be sad, althought i feel like we did lose quite a few members that were important for the clan. We didn't lost most of the active members, just the most vocal ones.
skype chat still gets over 200 messeges per day and defences still get filled within half a minute. | 200 messages is way to less man :(
I used to write that many messages itself :)
But its good no one is sad ,
SO its all good :) | First of all thx for explanation background of changes.
As newcomer it was hard to find mates in A&D and now too many of them left the clan. I hardly understand the goals and clan motivation...
Now I understand the reasons of leaving better.
However when I joined only a few months ago as 240. and the fact now I am 180. in the members list means a bit much fluctuation.
A&D is a "safe heaven" for english speaking players, however in my oppinion it starts to loose the "community" feeling after "most vocal ones" have left. | | Thanks for sharing this, Syrian. Even though i am not a member of A&D, i used to be watchful of its progress so i know your words have truth to it. | Sigh.. another party? )
I recently replied to another topic, without mentioning names, so as not to direct my comments against anyone in particular and make it personal.
Guess that not working.
I have always respected others' decisions and kept quiet, regardless of how much I disagree with them. But since my name [again] is thrown out, it's only right that everyone hear BOTH sides of the story.
I didn't start this, but if you want to mention my name, then be prepared for me to mention yours.
Every member (including myself) that was part of the ruling A&D Council left
This is a blatant lie. You know it, I know it. The other Council members [Those who left made up a minority] still in the Council know it.
Only 4 were Council members when they and you left.
So don't paint a half-baked story just to make yourself look good. Is it really that hard to speak the truth?
And I have the messages, screenshots etc, to prove you are.. not telling the truth.
Please don't even start by saying it's a typo..
the Council actually voted "yes" to warfare
Blatant lie. The council voted [by majority of +1 vote] to ASK all members by survey if they want to go to war. The vote is NOT for war itself.
You know it. I know it. Skype messages prove it.
Anyone interested to know the FULL picture [and not selective quoting] can ask me for screenshots of them. You want them too, TS?
while the other half kept silent
No, they didn't kept 'silent'. For one, ALL of them voted, did they not? You can't be silent and vote, can you?
Others also made their opinion known and were against war. But guess you only wanna quote in this topic those opinions similar to yours, and conveniently leave out the rest that were against.
And since you deemed it fit to mention my name [while I didn't mentioned any in my response in another topic]. Then I can safely assume you have no issues with me mentioning yours too.)
In reference to this topic - https://www.lordswm.com/forum_messages.php?tid=2609116&page=1
You, Syrian, are the one who resorted to name-calling [kitten] when someone have a different opinion than yours. Mature, you are.
You, Syrian, are the one, when I offered you a challenge [about both of us starting a clan and meeting certain goals] and see who reaches them first. I even offered 1K as an inventive to the winner.
You said "No".
Kitten is not just typing a few words, throwing a few insults on a keyboard [keyboard warrior, anyone?]. Anyone can do that. Put your money where your mouth is. I did.
Who's the kitten?
If anyone thinks they can run a clan well [that's why telling others how to do it, right?], then why not go and start a clan and prove it? Like I said in other topic. It's not hard to militarize a clan. GO FOR IT.
"Hey you, I want you to do this! Go do that! Huh? What? You want me to do it myself? Ermm.. no, I only want you to do it. I don't want the hassle/trouble to do it myself."
Real cool. | Also, it's absolutely unnecessary to insult and belittle 200+ of the members.
[Not directly/only referring to the TS here, just paraphrasing here]. How many times have some of those who left said something like, "The majority of members are lazy/don't care about clan/inactive/blood-suckers etc, who does nothing for clan, and just sit around and enjoy the clan benefits."
What about [really bad and rude] comments made to certain members like chikish etc? Dare to say them out loud here?
Why did the TS left this part out? Coz it won't make you [and others who said it] look good? :)
And don't even deny it. It's all there in Skype chats for all to see.
For those who left recently and now made such comments, almost ALL of you went inactive for long periods [some over a year]. Did you help clan then when you were inactive? Weren't others there to help clan in your absence? When you became active and came back to clan, did you not enjoyed the clan benefits immediately upon your return?
Did any of those once thanked all those members who helped clan in your absence?
Not even once from anyone that I can recall.
We always see the good we do, but hardly ever appreciate the good others do.
Not all members/players in game have the gold, money [real money to donate, and even buy UCI], and loads of time to get involved in war battles.
Many have RL commitments/work/family/school that require a lot of time, and play this game casually. You wanna drag them to war, just coz some want a taste of it?
For those, I say - Go start a war-only clan. I'll hand over my leadership and join you and see how you run it and make EVERYONE happy. :)
If not, don't comment about dragging a whole clan to war. It reflects badly on yourself.
Anyone here ever heard/seen/know of someone who has never flew a plane before tell a pilot how to fly a plane?
Anyone here ever heard/seen/know of someone who have never build a house before tell an architect how to build a skyscraper?
Probably not.
But we are all fantastic when dishing out advice on the keyboard, aren't we?
Running out of space, so don't even get me started on the [paraphrasing] "Come on, let's tax EFL. We can win them easily." here..
I repeat, If anyone wants to experience war, fine. Go ahead. Game allows it and many [from almost every MC] have done so in the past. I have no issues with that. I don't recalled anyone [definitely not me] making a big fuss on it on forums/in public.
But if you 'attack' clan/its members/me, and try to justify your actions with 'selective' quotes and facts, then it's only fair I retaliate and voice both sides of the story.
I have the messages, PMs, messages etc, to support it.
Oh, and "I write this with no bitterness, no resentment, or animosity." Really. Just sharing my side of the [full] story. | | (rofl) | | Jedi, YOU are making this worse. In no way was Syrian insulting you or the clan, he is simply saying we had a disagreement and chose to leave instead of making things worse... | | Jedi, do you have something new to say? it seems like whatever you wrote here about your clan members again is already public knowledge based on your previous posts :p | Ok, cuz... just clarifying some things:
Every member (including myself) that was part of the ruling A&D Council left
Let me rephrase that: "Of every member who left who was part of the ruling A&D Council". Of course not all councilors left, I apologize if my phrasing was misleading.
The council voted [by majority of +1 vote] to ASK all members by survey if they want to go to war
Yes, and the survey mail was done and ready to be sent, instead you delayed it for days and managed to insert it as the last of a 13-point clan mail, with the title "others", never once referring warfare. You had already voted against war, so those tactics were seen (not only by me) as your attempt to undermine a possible favourable response from A&D members. I now firmly believe you'd have messaged each member to ask for a "No".
while the other half kept silent
Yes, they did vote, some by pm (I doubt those would've voted if I hadn't held the vote by pm), but didn't say one word in Council chat (neither during the debate, nor after).
If not, don't comment about dragging a whole clan to war.
I'll let you answer yourself (quote from the other topic):
There are roughly 12-15K /active players. How many actively play war battles? 500? 700? 1K? [a glance at the logs and it's always the same 15-30+ players from each MC].
So 2-6% of the population do war battles actively, and suddenly, this is a war game?
And yes, I will guess it's a "war game". Apparently, admins felt "Lords of Diplomacy and Money" wasn't a very catchy pitch.
For the rest, I have nothing to say that's isn't implied or even explicitly said in post #1, nor I want to drag this anymore. I'd love, though, to have ALL members of the Council (past and present) post their opinions here, although I know it will hardly happen.
And I do see your need to "come out on top", so if you feel the need to respond, by all means forgive me if I then don't reply. Do have the last word. You might have perceived this topic as an attack, when it's not. It's just an attempt to explain my point of view, and to close the issue and put everything behind our backs. I urge you to focus on the future of A&D. I already left, cuz; good luck and godspeed. | Me leaving A&D was not an easy decision to make - As some of you know, my other half is in A&D and it was a bit of a hard topic (in an ideal world we would be able to defend and do event together in the same clan).
There was no specific reason for me leaving, a lot it just because things built and built up with no end in sight. It became a toxic atmosphere and I didn't want to be there anymore.
I was a warlord in A&D, I had no idea what a warlord does, I was never given any formal information nor was it offered. Even when we asked for formal information, nothing happened. One example towards the end I remember was
Me : "What do we do if [ally] wants to be taxed as protection?
Someone: "Is this a real question or hypothetical?"
Me: "hypothetical"
Someone: "Come back when it's a real question."
I was also an SK for the depo - I urged for about a month about increasing depo size, nada. Depo only has enough space as people left and took their arts.
"Come on, let's tax EFL. We can win them easily."
Full disclosure, I'm more than likely the one who said this, but I wouldn't even think for a single second that someone took it seriously. I wouldn't go as far as saying everyone on .com are friends, but there is a lot of friendship between clans and nobody would attack each other.
I would like to give a big thank you to those who did make my time at A&D better. | I don't know anything about the issue, so Idk why I'm gonna talk at all.
But I think everybody is way overreacting to things, honestly.
You wanna go to another clan because they War more? Then go, I see no problem.
I don't see why some ppl are talking about "Vocal" people, or "Most active" people.
seems like persons are worth more than others? Lol, because that's what I see people are implying.
Like 10-15 left... But it's not the end, Lmao, move on.
We are perfectly fine. Actually, in the last months is when more friends I'm making inside the clan, and still talking with some of those who left a little.
I have the feeling that some ppl think that if you aren't in our group or decide to leave, you become an enemy. It's not that way, guys.
The world is okay, move on ... Everybody keeps living n breathing ...
And those who left just we won't see in clan defences (Btw I don't def much sorry :P), but we see in forum, private mail, or CG.
I feel sorry for Miles Swag, he unwillingly opened the Pandora Box by creating the topic/thread out of pure curiosity. ))))))
PS: I think it all went mad when both sides began to accuse each other.
PS2: I'm impressed somebody would suggest attacking EFL as I've read tho, just wth. | But I think everybody is way overreacting to things, honestly.
Word.
It's just a game. Chill. Lol. | I have the feeling that some ppl think that if you aren't in our group or decide to leave, you become an enemy. It's not that way, guys.
]
^This. I guess people (myself included) are reacting because of an implication that leaving a certain military clan is an unacceptable thing - that we were attracted by far away 'shiny things' and did not stick out for whatever reasons. For expressing that ridiculous logic which makes us ex-clan members out to be treacherous and foolish for choosing an alternative of our own accord. Apparently, it seems wiser to some to instead tolerate all the mediocrity and other clan policing for the sake of some self-imposed ideals - and I will not be a part of that crowd. | if you feel the need to respond, by all means forgive me if I then don't reply.And I do see your need to "come out on top", so if you feel the need to respond, by all means forgive me if I then don't reply. Do have the last word.
Ok, you said me, not me. So try to keep to your word, maybe?
It's NOT me who started this topic. It's NOT me who started posting names [mine seems to be popular choice. :D] in public.
In fact, I have never said a single bad comment on those who recently left. Not in private, and not in public.
So if you felt a need to explain your leaving, with inaccurate facts, and thus possibly mislead all those who read this topic, of course I have to respond.
You mean you can create a topic, my name scattered all over your post, and when I reply to a topic YOU created, mentioning me, it's me who wants to come out on top" ? Seriously??
So anyone who post anything [misleading even] about me, I have 2 options,
[1] Don't reply even when it's misleading,
[2] Reply and.... people will say I want to come out top ! :D
Wow.. I learned something new today. :)
So can I say if you reply me, you want to come out top too? Or it only applies to me, and not you? :?
Yes, and the survey mail was done and ready to be sent, instead you delayed it for days and managed to insert it as the last of a 13-point clan mail, with the title "others", never once referring warfare. You had already voted against war, so those tactics were seen (not only by me) as your attempt to undermine a possible favourable response from A&D members.
Wow, I'm sorry to say this, but your 'inaccuracies' is getting a little too absurd.
Now you finally admit that your initial post is a lie [Council didn't vote for war, but a survey]? Thanks for clarifying. :)
But sadly, you have to mislead again, or don't speak the whole truth.
As for the sending of the actual survey mail, YOU said you wanted to send it yourself. YOU said I shouldn't send the survey mail coz members who reply to me, instead of to you.
I now firmly believe you'd have messaged each member to ask for a "No".
This have to take the cake of all the lies, misleading, assumptions you ever made.
Show me ONE [yes, just ONE] member where I messaged/asked/told him/her to vote "No".
We bet 1 million gold [or whatever your gift limit is for 6 months?
If you don't take up my offer, I take it you are making a [again, misleading] ridiculous accusation ?
It's ridiculous accusations like these, and I'm not expected to respond? SERIOUSLY?
More importantly, thinking members will vote "No/Yes" just coz I told them to, is not an insult to me, but to every single member [!]
Amazing how you can insult the 200+ people with one sentence. :? | One of my council members asked me to relay this - [paraphrasing] "Can you tell him [Syrian] that the Council was discussing something some time ago, and he did not spoke a single word, probably busy with work or out-stationed. No one in Council blamed him for his absence, and now, he blames those that are absent and 'silent'?"
[there's clan history to prove this]
I will guess it's a "war game". Apparently, admins felt "Lords of Diplomacy and Money" wasn't a very catchy pitch.
Seriously, we are still at this?
Just coz YOU [and a few] want to do war battles (my opinion [could be wrong], it won't last more than 3-6 mths), doesn't mean majority of others do too.
The world does not revolve around 'I'/Me'. Words like 'others/they' matter too.
Name me 1 person who likes to do war battles, and I'll name you 5 that don't. Fair enough?
PS: The 'War' in game's name was made 3-5 years BEFORE PvP war battles were introduced in this game. Pff.. stop making misleading statements, PLEASE.
I replied to your post. So you can either keep to your own words and don't reply, or you can respond, and show that you want to "come out on top". Your words, not mine.
As for @Mesh, please don't start with me. I never mentioned your name or said anything negative bad about you.
But to answer your question about Depo, You asked quite a few times. I'm sure I may not have replied every time you asked, but I'm sure I replied you regarding Depo space at one point.
Just coz someone asked something many times, don't mean you have to reply to the same question every times, right?
Remember your remarks and comments about chikish? I won't say more.
I never said you are the one who said it. I also never said there were only one person who made similar remarks. And whether you think it will be taken seriously or not - Think about it. Council chat was nothing but "Let's go to war! let's attack!" for weeks.
Half of the members there wanted and were dying to attack something, anything.. and then someone [not saying it's Mesh or anyone in particular] say something like, [paraphrasing] "Let's attack EFL. They should be easy",
Do you not think that it might be taken seriously? Everyone will take it as a joke and not pursue the possibility [of attacking EFL] if I didn't stop the idea?
Like I said, everyone's free to as they wish. If you want to go fight war, go ahead. Many have done it in the past. But I don't recall anyone I know starting a topic explaining why he left a clan to do war battles. :)
Imagine if everyone who left a clan go to forums and start a topic to explain the reason they left a clan ! SPAM CENTRAL ! haha.. :D
I never spoke bad about anyone who left, never did, never will. In fact, I kept silent most of the time, keeping my opinion to myself. So please don't bring me, clan or its members into a negative light [especially if they are half-baked facts, accusations and downright lies], or I surely will respond.
Happy New Year everyone. :) |
1|2Back to topics list
|
