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| Author | Dwarves too overpowered? |
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| Hey, I am playing CG and always I play agaist dwarf it is clear loss, no matter what setup I set. After 1st turn half 3/4 my army dead, you can't block it cause berserkers playing before your blocking stacks so invokers has for 1st turn free hydra rune or crusade...dash. Than bear coming to you by speed rune, your main melee unit is knocked back. What else? Lava dragons use speed rune, dash... 2 stacks ruined...And in reserve are priest by crusade rune and master spearmen so they ruin the rest of your shooter stacks if some of them still survived. When I play with chaos magic, no chance. Dominion of fire...does not work on bears. If I play shooter setup, its hard to survive the 1st turn cause invokers have 11 initiative and most of your shooter stacks have 10 and less. If you have 11, like sharpshooters/orcs, it's about luck who is playing first. And even if you are playing first you ar not able to eliminate invokers/priests/spearmen/lava dragons at once. The only way how to survive longer is to play very defensively with def parameters and talents but then you have no chance vs all chaos, dominion of fire, disruption rays characters. So do you have any ideas how to play against dwarves successfuly? Is it even possible? | barb is weak against dwarf no doubt. We do lots of damage but our units cannot attack before theirs (except birds) so we have to be good at taking hits which is usually not the case in standard barbarian builds.
Shadow barb is very good at beating dwarf however. | | in my experience i usually allways lose to elf when i am dwarf... but then i am a noob :D | Dwarf tends to be a counter vs most high damage factions except elf.
like barb, DE, (i think red demon) | there are a few things to say.
First of all, against a tank you can't one shoot. It seems an evidence when said, yet countless people keep hoping to wreak havock to dwarves with one stack making a big hit. Well, it won't work.
Berserk can hit hard, but they are mashed paper. Cast a curse on them, and they won't be a huge issue.
Dwarves are troublesome because of their def, so you need to bring at least three stacks near one of theirs, and then hit them with everything you have. Kill one stack at time, and don't let them resurrect, or force them to use another rune instead.
when you can, split your troops so that invokers can't kill all the ones you need at once. For example, put shooters on one side, and the big stacks on another. They can hit either, but not both.
Dwarves aren't very fast, if you cast delay and weakness (or curse) on them, their damage is greatly reduced. Meaning, you need to play darkness, of course, or have troops that can do that.
Finally, it is normal to have one or two factions that one build can't easily win against. Else, everyone would play that one. So you may have to chose, either to lose to dwarf, or to beat them but lose to someone else. If you meet a lot of them, i'd suggest to take the second option, and then find way to optimize so that you minimize losses against other players. | With dwarves the presence of the new build changes things slightly and means that your tactics and indeed build to counter them is then different.
Dwarves have ever had an aspect of not being able to fully counter what they can do at the start - try to block them, well they can use rune of agility, shoot down a chunk of their shooters, they resurrect. This had been countered by the fact that while they took some killing there damage output was relatively modest, short of well placed runes of retribution or star shots and luck triggers.
Recently I have come across one player in CG who has used the new luck build as fully offensive build (ie with dagger and no shield). This means that their damage potential, with luck triggers, high attack and ignore defence is very significant, with the fear factor that they can, should they choose, hit anywhere. This is then countered by the fact that they are significantly more flimsy(genies with luck trigger one shot bears in one battle).
Tactics versus them then change slightly, as then in a group battle you usually have to focus on killing them very quickly.
As an example this is the person with this build https://www.lordswm.com/pl_info.php?id=6801540 - if you check his log he is pretty successful -- though do not attribute this all to the dwarf build, it is also due to a strong character build for his level.
If you have certain builds - chaos caster for example, then you are going to get eaten alive by him
Some of my battles against him (win, loss, win)
https://www.lordswm.com/war.php?warid=882134050
https://www.lordswm.com/war.php?warid=881498791
https://www.lordswm.com/war.php?warid=880584298
I am not convinced that this means dwarves are OP, but they are certainnly an enemy to fear in group battles due to their significant flexibility | | I always think that their shooters could use a nerf, especially those patriarchs with 70 hp waiting to always use crusade or resurrection. Ignore them a bit and they will surely destroy whole armies. | | Dwarves aren't really overpowered but they are very well rounded and can be played multiple ways. that is why they seem "OP". I think they'll scale this back a bit when they come out with the alternate class for it | Even worse,
that ice dude just hit 16 he was 15 necro with same stats a month ago XD | | I wouldn't say they are OP. For me as a red demon they are doable unless they are extremely lucky with spearmans during first turn. Just there is Paper/Rock/Scissors chance for some factions and its ok some builds works against Chaos, different for defence etc. That means there is no strongest or weakest faction that way. | https://www.lordswm.com/war.php?warid=882684168
No chance. Really disgusted. | Hi Pastak, a tough combination for you to face, double dwarf is very flexible. Stat wise it was all pretty equal, your side had slightly better direct faction levels, but less resistance, overall guild development was sufficiently similar, no significant variance in armaments.
They were likely to get the ranged advantage every time, so your only real hope was to dive in (as you did and try and ) and hope morale and luck procs favoured you sufficiently to gain an advantage over your direct opposite number. To do this your barb ally had to support you by preventing them focusing on you. This would mean your magic would have a chance to make a difference.
Instead your ally stays back with rocs and boars as if expecting to get the ranged advantage when this was never going to happen, they double team you and so you get annihilated. If you look, much of your troops are killed by the level 17 opposition, rather than your direct opposite number. Leaving easy pickings of the remaining barb.
This is the thing with dwarf, the fear factor of charging in due to significant backlash from runes, versus the fact that they have very good ranged, so unusual to be able to out shoot them. | What is clear is that Dwarves are very good in group battles
check this out http://lgnd.ru/gt/rating/r/8/filter/1
Then scroll through and look at the different factions, you will quickly notice that dwarves have the highest number of win rates in bold, they are consistently good.Dark Demon similarly is good, not quite so many high win rates, but hardly any lower than 50%, fury barb also does quite well, charmer elf, not so much.
If you look however at 1vs1 they difference is not quite so stark, however it is sufficient to suggest that dwarves are probably the most dominant in CG and so it is perhaps valid that they need to be toned down a touch.
In my opinion CG is probably a better judge of this than tournaments as the difference in character development and arts equipped is usually less significant in CG than tournies where people have an increased liklihood of playing when not that competitive. | Completely agree with previous post.
also, i think the new talent makes them stronger not only because of adding around 6-7 attack parameters in the formula (9-12% less Defence is like 6 defence less in full AP) ...
... But because it forces them to pick the Barrier talent (or the one that is the same but in Luck branch, whatever it's called), protecting them against Chaoses and Darks. | | Does the magic resistance talent also work on dark magic, like delay? I am playing dwarf but I didnt know or didnt notice it :D | | of course. It works against all magic. | Does the magic resistance talent also work on dark magic, like delay?
Yes, I believe it works against dark magic.
It doesn't work against holy magic or magic punch. | | Thank you Miles, very good remarks. :) | | Anyway dwarfs will be maybe not so strong in feature, in one radio interview was confirmed that runes will be canceled and dwarfs get some other racial ability :( | | 19. that would make me sad. i have spent the last 2 months raising my FSL for dwarf just for retribution strike:( |
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