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| Author | Is anything going to be done about dwarves??? |
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| I mean come on you cant play a mixed commanders battle without at least one of them in it, and even just one is a rarity... | I refuse to play another commanders group battle untill dwarves are nerfed to the ground.
Right now its play dwarf or lose... | | You can still find dwarves, which mess up the perfect talent selection, so you can beat them, but yes, it is the year of dwarven grow. | Right now its play dwarf or lose...
Its not really like that , and Elf is one off the best at PVP | Lets compare a charmer elf with a dwarf in a group battle, how much they bring in.
Elf has a powerful melee with high iniative that dies quite fast, not even worth attacking first because retaliation will kill them. (FB)
They also have a powerful melee who can tank a little too and gets stronger from holy casts (unicorn)
A buff stack that is only good for casting stoneskin, pretty useless (druids)
A shooter, who is a really powerful but in small numbers, gets killed fast and easy (sharpshooter)
And a tank that does no damage and is low on numbers, good only for surviving late game when you can deal a little magic damage (its quite useless if enemy has good anti and against big numbers or fast units).
Dragon which is only good for taking retal or blocking, green dragons dont do damage (barely killed 4 patriarchs with 2 dragons when I had 50 atk and he had 28 def)
So 2 good fighters and 1 shooter, everything else is utility.
Now dwarf. Spearmen, who shoot strong, are a lot, cripple, deal massive damage, and with crusade rune and piercing luck are monsters.
Ursay, a tank that does damage, can stun, has high ini, hp and 7 speed.
Berserkers (scraps) who can easily block your shooters with agility and help trigger crusade rune.
Patriarchs, who can wipe out your entire backline with one turn, especialy with crusade or divinity rune and luck. Also provides supportive utility.
Invokers, who got an 8 speed, are tanky, immune to lightning, do massive aoe damage and can destroy an entire army with one rune of retribution, also have 16 speed with rune of agility. And they got a ranged attack that can oneshot a stack of sharpshooters that is also aoe.
And lava dragons, who are slow ( but not with rune of agility), hard to kill, does a looot of damage, especialy luck and piercing luck attacks, dragon breath AND a nasty lava shield..
So 3 strong melee attackers and 2 powerful and tanky shooters.
Every stack of a dwarf seems impactful. Meanwhile elf, you lose fb uni and sharps, thats it, you done, you useless. Even when out of ammo spearmen got no melee penalty. Not to mention the cheater ressurection rune, thing is killing me in caravan battles.. | yeah , but you are forgeting one thing , elf moves 1st
FB you have to attack 1st !
Unicorn can almost one shoot bear at 1st turn (with luck) , sharpshooters can wipe out half army only by them. just split them and stack them correct so they dont die before they shoot
maybe check how other elfs play and then come back to your topic :P
i think elf is very good dwarf counter | or maybe you are playing wrong elf
https://www.lordswm.com/war.php?warid=896660637 | | also I agree with dwarf OP, but it only happens at combat level 18+. | | Im not saying that Dwarf is not OP , but Elf is as well ! | | Elf is extremely strong in PVP, However you need good guilds... don't take this the wrong way but your guilds are not too good :) (yes mine are worse :P ) | They changed something for piercing luck?
Now it can be taken from lvl 13
Funny enough, instead of degrading, they are still buffing dwarves.. | Don't think so.. I have the same number of talent points left over as previously.
I guess you're not taking spare rune? | Maybe i dont remember correctly :D
But i always thought its available from lvl 15.. but I just faced lvl 13 dwarf with that talent.
Must be wrong i guess | for ProZyk:
5*luck=50 talent points, you can pick it at lv13, but without spare rune.
at lower level it does not shows that strong than higher level, firstly the -12% defense works better when everyone has higher stats at higher level, 40*12%=4.8 not greatly better than a erudition, but 70*12%=8.4 is double effect than a erudition which is quite significant. secondly the artifact clover of fortune and flame dagger which is the standard for a piercing luck dwarf, goes stronger at high level significantly, this makes great difference. | Yes you're.. i got confused with 'playable level' from this talent, which should be lvl 15 still, because dwarf needs spare rune ;)
Thanks! | ITs primarily the invokers that tend to get me about dwarves, they were nasty enough before, but with piercing luck on a pure attack build dwarf, if they get off a retribution then its all over.
It is the sense of futility which then galls, and the fact that this all or nothing play is often about luck with which way the iniative bar goes at the start, with either beserkers being able to block your earlier charge (genies, unicorns, nightmares etc) or else your blockers not moving first or else being removed by beserkers with agility.
The factions that get this focus and demoralise are those that are attack builds and dominate in one move. Even if the match up against a slow army like defensive shadow barbs have the same win rate or dominance, it doesn;t make you feel so bad about it as its not about one killer move so you feel like you had a chance (even if really it wasn;t much of one)
Not sure how I would balance it though if I were in their shoes, thats the thing. | Main problem is not about the Creatures themselves IMHO, its about the option to give ANY stack "No Retaliaton/Crusade/Policephaly" etc...
They have just so many options for any situation. | While I see your point, they cannot change that aspect of dwarves, it would ruin the whole feel of them. Even though they have a lot of options there is often a cost to it, often just knowing they cannot then use a different rune helps a lot in predicting what they will do and countering it. This is why the raw stats of dwarf creatures are often not so great (worst faction at hunting), to compensate for their increased cohesion at PvP.
Any change to them to even things out would need to be a slight adjustment. For me just knocking off 1 ini from invokers would do it. Though of course really balance is when sometimes you win and sometimes you lose, which is the case for me against dwarves. so really, arguably dwarves are the most balanced for me since I will normally win against all other factions and its only dwarves that are unpredictable. | Policephaly
Which?
They have just so many options for any situation.
This isn't so true.. in 90% of situations the rune to use is the obvious one. Some of the runes are seldom used.
For me just knocking off 1 ini from invokers would do it.
Would cripple dwarves sadly. | For me just knocking off 1 ini from invokers would do it.
Would cripple dwarves sadly.
Thats the thing, invokers with rune of retribution do so much damaghe that this one move often decides the whole fight.
I can remember when I was working to get FL9 in dwarf by doing watchers guilds, and it was so clear that certain battles were only winnable if you used that rune in the right spot. Also true in PVP, too much depends on this one move - get it off in a good spot and you win, don;t and you may still win, but less likely.
Not sure what they could do to reduce the reliance on this move, but without ruining it entirely.
Probably overcomplicating things as is my tendency but how about pre selecting a range of runes each creature could use. For some of these, enabling them could cause a slight negative shift in some characteristic (-2% ini from base), while removing the chance of them using it provides a boost.
Thus allowing slightly finer control on any balancing. |
This topic is long since last update and considered obsolete for further discussions.
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