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| Author | Game becoming P2W discussion |
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Civil discussion only, please no trolling.
In my opinion, this game has been leading more and more towards p2w.
Why so?
1. Abu Bakir charm
The charm that costs 50k per month to gain very good stats. Most of us have this. Why? Because if u don't have it then u fall behind in FSP and LG. If the charm just gives double backpack & market, chance to refresh WG and a mount. Who will buy? i wouldn't. The only reason I am buying ABC is really only for the extra 10% XP and 1.5x LG point. The others are just freebies.
2. Implementation of new guilds
The 2 latest additions are P2W guilds. Billions of gold were invested into these 2 guilds by players. Yeah, both f2p players can play the guilds and have fun too, so not p2w.
- Leader guild
Purchase of scrolls and putting a maximum per week purchase to limit p2w? The limit is way too high. 10 golden scrolls per week and offer 5% chance to get epic stack. So rich players like Angel99 can have hundreds of epic troops and even mythic ones. Also 600k gold to purchase epic troops during LG event? Come on this is pure p2w. F2p players cannot enjoy this game much longer.
- Adventurer guild
This guild involves millions of gold invested into getting AG 3 which gives +3 stat points. This is ridiculous. It is basically, who has gold get free 3 stat points.
3. Clan PvP
It is fair to say that clan pvp is fully funded by rich players. Clans are actually losing money and the only reason clan pvp is done are for the 3 CG points as well as bragging rights. It isn't the case where a clan fights with another for a facility so they can profit from it, but it is the case where a clan fight with another for no reason at all other than to waste gold and brag.
4. Events with enchants
Seriously? I do enjoy the events but i too am a donator, so i have the luxury to afford such things. What about f2p players? It is an actual joke to see all the top players using enchanted imperial/dark arts. Do they profit from the event? No, they don't. Why do they do it? For the clan. Ok. And all of them are either big donators or sponsored from the clan. U do not see f2p players wasting millions of gold into a full enchant imperial set and then wasting it on an event for 4000 gold per battle.
5. Diamonds speeding up MG/HG
This is fair but on days like Day of Helpful hunters. I seen many "top" players abuse this by getting a teammate to deal minimal damage and then taking +1.5HG for themselves. if diamond speeding is banned on day of hunter, it should be banned for helpful hunters as well.
So these are the few points i want to raise, i also want to commend admins for taking small steps into giving f2p player chance to do well too.
This includes:
- Maximum number of battles in event with enchants (50 extra attempts)
- CG (hours of equal battles)
- Speed up potions (Help understat players to achieve average guild faster)
lets discuss and keep it civil/ refrain from personal insults. | i disagree with the first 2 points.
ABC is only 50k for a month, you can easily get 50k from enrolling alone, therefore in my mine it doesnt enable P2W
and as you said yourself in point 2, those ones can still be done (and done well) by people who are F2P
clan pvp, well if you join a clan which actively takes part in wars then its your choice.
the other 2 points i agree with you mostly | I agree on most of the points but as a developer myself i know the game is sustained by donations like this by bringing small features to make it pay to win so that they can make it better
also regarding enchanted event battles.. u still get an option to play it without enchants
same goes for AG and LeG , u can build it slowly too u dont need to invest money in that..
and then the point of equal CG battles..
If they implement equal CG battles people will stop grinding guilds so most of the features of the game will not be played by much players..
considering the game is named lords of war and money ... u need to enroll too build TG do everything to earn money too.. and then u can use those speed up potions to balance ur guilds .. | for death2all:
Well yes, easily 50k a month for f2p players, but 50k is still a lot bro.
It does not need to exist at all. Else u are forcing players to buy ABC or fall behind.
I appreciate ABC, i buy it and keep it up every month but can see poorer players who don't have gold to play events suffer from it.
For 2. yes done well with f2p players. Every event pikemen or lose. That is not f2p bro. Every battle u see players with pikemen getting good scores. Also Leader tournaments, dominateed by p2w players too.
Clan pvp, does not concern me although im in a clan that is in war everyday. But it is a feature only p2w players can play in. U need enchanted imperial/rare sets to play in clan pvp. So the good FSP and free 3 CG points are out of bounds for the f2p players.
for mina_12:
I too donate money to the game over the years. Mostly for roulette but that is my choice. And yes enchanted event battles can be play without enchants but u wont get a top score if u dont have enchanted rare set ( | | so i think u would agree that pay 2 win is a trade-off with personal greed and competitiveness | | For Kchong: you are a Kchong. <3 | 1) Abu Bakir charm isn't mandatory. The game doesn't force you to get it. If you want to be competitive then it'll definitely help, but it's ultimately our choice.
2)Lets face it LeG is basically a guild made for the donators. No use in going F2P and hoping to win anything in this guild. Just be glad it doesn't give any stat point rewards.
As for AG, they really need to drop the difficulty. They should make it into a non-competitive campaign that is an extension of the tutorial we got upto Level 5. It'll help new players learn some strategy, and make it easier for them to get into PvP. (Reduce the learning curve or something)
3)Clan PvP is also a personal choice. If you can't play competitively, just join a clan that doesn't demand a lot. There is more to being in a clan than just winning events or clan PvP.
4) Again, this game rewards people who've invested years into it. No new nobody can, or should, be able to top any events. That just defeats the purpose of veterans. The enchants isn't a necessity, just an option (For bragging rights).
Most of the points you stated are only a problem when you try to be competitive. It's a fine Free to Play game, just isn't Free to Win (In server wide competitions).
I don't really understand why everyone should be expected to utilize the chance to use a speed up potion or farm a guild to get an advantage over others. If you face someone with a better guild (In PvP), then just accept the loss (And maybe rage a little) and move on. It's like you want everyone to have the chance to win (To be at the top) in everything 100% of the time lol.
The game does run on donations (No ads), so the admins need to give the donator's some kind of an edge to keep them interested. And they also need to give long-time players some kind of an edge (eg. their huge treasury and inventory of rare arts, usable in events or PvP) for their continued interest in the game. | Personally I would agree that there is a drift in that direction, one that is more significant the less time you have played this game, as that tends to correlate to LG level. As someone who has been around a while, and while I have donated in the past, not that much and not for a good 2 years or more, I feel the barrier to me is more time commitment to the game rather than gold. Having more gold would not alter the time commitment to do the battles to get the benefit.
If you enrol a lot, or work the market, make profit from events by being good etc, then you can afford most of the things. I for example could have afforded to buy pikemen for 600k, though didn;t, if I had I would have minimal to complain about in terms of what I could access versus people who invested golf
This game is set up to play long and slow, if you want to speed it up gold is needed, usually from donations.
My one feeling of imbalance with these is the 3CG for certain clan battles. This feels a little large and since dominated by a comparative few, only accessible with huge gold reserves, and therefore frequently from donations, this can end up with some absolute brutes with huge CG levels.
Everything else while gold gives a help, it does not prevent a f2p person having a competitive chance in most aspects. | | For Lord Milesteg: some clan battles give CG Points up to three?? I dindt know that. When does the 3 CG points battles happen? | for BobEsponja:
https://www.lordswm.com/warlog.php?warid=1106940919 | It's a fine Free to Play game, just isn't Free to Win (In server wide competitions).
Which is the definition of P2W (Pay to Win). If you cannot reasonably expect to be able to compete with your skill ( and time in this case) alone, but need to supplement with money, then you have a P2W game.
Now in this case, you dont win by just throwing money at the admins, you actually have to be a good player as well, so thats something. I think you can balance A LOT of money discrepancies by Skill (and a functioning network of active and cooperating players).
But not all.
LEG and enchanted events being the main culprit.
Regarding the argument that the game has to sustain itself: Many currently succesful games are able to sustain on cosmetics and whatever bonus content , without interfering with the core gameplay too much.
If admins spend their time and money on developing skins or animations or something else that people can buy (instead of doing what exactly?) I am sure they could create a more fulfilling experience in this game.
Which would maybe even net them more active players and create a positive circle effect.
Games can be P2W, and players can be ok with it. This game certainly has aspects that lean in that direction, even though I wouldnt call it entirely P2W.
But it is most definitely Pay to Enjoy, IMO. | so i think u would agree that pay 2 win is a trade-off with personal greed and competitiveness
Exactly the case in this game. People who want to be seriously competitive without paying, just needs to invest a whole lot of time into it. It's either time or money.
If you cannot reasonably expect to be able to compete with your skill ( and time in this case) alone
Pretty sure you can't reasonably win in any competitive MMO's without investing time into it. As for this game, time and skill is all it'll take really. Just not in months, but years.
The problem here is the top tier competition is totally immersed with P2W. This wouldn't be an issue if admins just changed their reward system (Giving the top reward for just 1 person, when the whole server competes, just skews everything).
able to sustain on cosmetics
I agree on this point. Army cosmetics, troop skins, artifact skins can go a long way in sustaining the game. | I think there is some merit in the points posted here but honestly i'm quite impressed that the admins have managed to keep the P2W elements quite low key especially compared to other games.
It would have been so easy for them to turn this game into a cash grab and put stuff behind paywalls. The core game can be played to the full without any kind of donation.
I personally like the soft subscription model with ABC and have been on both sides of the fence with it. Now I couldn't really play the game without it and am happy paying my 10 diamonds a month, it can be had for 50k gold so that's really not bad
LeG I personally quite dislike but at least its mostly optional.
Clan PVP is obviously a cash cow and some players spend ridiculous amount of diamonds on it but at the end of the day somebody has to pay for the server.
Think of the stuff we could have had instead:
Purchase stats with diamonds, as in 500 diamonds = 1 stat point with no limit (can get 1 with UCI but rally this is fine)
Diamond upgraded troops not available to other players
Diamond only consumable items that are needed for pvp e.g. potions
Diamond only guilds
A compulsory monthly subscription
Honestly I think the admins have done a decent job of keeping a lid on it and other games should take note of the successful freemium model here. P2W is inescapable now compared to games a decade ago. | Well it's not a free to play game really.
It's a Pay-2-play unless you mind-numbingly type captchas.
And that's okay I guess.
Except this game happens to be very expensive for the kind of value it provides, when seen in my currency (Rupee).
I mean, when the cost of getting Imperials exceeds getting a PS5 with multiple games on it, I really can't justify spending that in anyway.
i'm quite impressed that the admins have managed to keep the P2W elements quite low key especially compared to other games.
Gotta give credit where it's due. I haven't donated in years, and I barely enroll anymore, and yet I've stayed net-gold positive playing just the events that are not P2W. Not bad. | for BobEsponja:
Jangan di sama in ama kacung lah.
Actually ABC it self not that expensive, you got xtra for labored so its not long to get 50k. If 1 time enroll give you 500, a day you did at least 5-10 time maybe more. You might only need a week till 10 days to get back that 50k :) | for Acean:
They would lose credibility this game had, if there were no ways to obtain diamomds other than pay.
If they moved away from established values we have in this game i know for a fact that alot of people would move away, quit, just like its is with other games. I like model where you pay to get to end result faster, but you compete against others in your strenght level(potential).
Those games i consider free2play. Like i just cant see giving anyone excuse to make something available for money(premium currency) if i cant get same thing for normal in game currency,what gives actual gameplay advantages(DUs in game. Dont bring argument that you can buy diamonds for 15k,because diamond exchange rate is 5k.). It literally makes CG unplayable if you dont have DU, befauee balancing is done around DU.
People might say game can live of donators only, but lets get real, if there were no free to play noobs to abuse because they dont pay, people paying less would fill that instead and so that loop would destroy this game. | What i would like to say. Devs push envelope slowly 1 thing at a time, most of people dont take it seriously until they are drowning. Basically mirorring real life.
Its almost only thing i can see nowadays. In game i see this pattern i have already seen other places, and result wasnt good in those other places, that much i can tell you. | | The introduction of Leader’s guild is really double-edged. On one hand it is an obvious p2w guild with several op donation units, pikemen being the most obvious example. But on the other hand it is a guild where stats don’t matter and players with decent activity level can still do pretty well in tactics LeG or LeG events even without donation troops. | The game is slow, if you want faster guild up and level up you can spend some money, but...
Except this game happens to be very expensive for the kind of value it provides, when seen in my currency (Rupee).
I mean, when the cost of getting Imperials exceeds getting a PS5 with multiple games on it, I really can't justify spending that in anyway.
I agree with this, as a citizen of a country with a minimum wage of less than 10 US dollars per day, spend money in the game sounds ridiculous.
I have to add that for buy castles and for new players is difficult to just get gold from labor guild, I think that is the reason of gamble and new players leaving the game. Could be a good idea to add daily or weekly rewards (500-1000gold) just for login, as most of the games with optional payments. | for Majblomma:
They could easily fix stigma surroinding leg, by making troops pikemen price not fixed, but regulated same way as other troops prices are. Otherwise its p2w trash. |
This topic is long since last update and considered obsolete for further discussions.
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