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| Author | whats the point |
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So vishnus, you think all other factions has a Build that can do all ?
HG, MG, PVP, and Tournments ?
May not be all 4 but sure PvP+ HG and MG.
Wake up, as Necromancer, I can't do that, I still need to switch talent (Erudition) mostly to get the point needed in Knowledge for Phantoms (HG) or more attack (MG
I have a doubt that necros too face problem in PvP. Thats why I asked my bro to be a necro( he also likes vamps and skelebows) . But you just said you had to change talents, not use portion of obliv and use different arti. For might DE to be magic, he has to use PoO, change talents and buy a new set of artis . There is no problem if just change in talent and troop count is required . No loss of gold. But usiong PoO every week/ day and buying both might and magic set is expensive. | | Do you think that Poison Master, which is one of the strongest build in PVP, dont need Magic Artifacts, Talent and PoO ? | IMHO, the admin cares much more about pvp than hunt/merc quests, so the major design/faction balance are focused on pvp battles. This way the DE racial skill is very important in pvp battle.
If u really want to talk about hunt or etc., I would say barb's racial ability is not much better than DE's. And most importantly, DE by itself is alreay one of the strongest faction in pve like hunt, TG... so I really have no idea what people complaining about | DE by itself is alreay one of the strongest faction in pve like hunt, TG...
I think that wizards, elves, and knights beat DE in hunts and maybe even TG |
I think that wizards, elves, and knights beat DE in hunts and maybe even TG
elves might be as good as DE in TG, but for wizards and knights I really dont think so.... do u really know how hard it is for wiz to do TG before lvl 14? | Do you think that Poison Master, which is one of the strongest build in PVP, dont need Magic Artifacts, Talent and PoO ?
Poison built is just like magic built of DE .Good for PvP alone. There is might built for necro with few knowledge , to make phantom/raise dead in hunts and mass disruption in PvP or take little SP for mass delay with erudition. But still I have a doubt that necros too face problem in PvP like might DE
So leave necro.
DE by itself is alreay one of the strongest faction in pve like hunt, TG
DE are not so strong in hunts especially after the new AI update( most hardhit are wizzy and DE) No other faction didn't have any problem with it as they didn't depend on hit and run. Many of DE and wizzy records became unbeatable.
About TG , there is no strong / weak faction in TG due to dynamic balancing, just the amt of initial loss.
IMHO, the admin cares much more about pvp than hunt/merc quests, so the major design/faction balance are focused on pvp battles. This way the DE racial skill is very important in pvp battle.
That is only for magic DE. If admins care only such way, they why did they increase cost of offense talent when magic DE is better in PvP? And if you cares much more about pvp than hunt/merc quests why didn't you support reduction in cost of offense/darkness talent for DE to somewhat balance might DE with magic DE in PvP , which was the base of initial discussion. | No other faction didn't have any problem with it as they didn't depend on hit and run.
you must have forgotten elves and demons --- well actually there're 4 factions that depends heavily on hit&run in hunting, more than half, not only DE!
why didn't you support reduction in cost of offense/darkness talent for DE to somewhat balance might DE with magic DE in PvP , which was the base of initial discussion.
I think the initial discussion is all about DE's racial ability. If you know how strong and scary might DE was before the balance, you will have no doubt why admin wants to cut it. more than 80% top players at that time have DE fsp just because DE was too strong.
I admit that might DE is not behaving that well in pvp now, but not because it's weak, but because it's hard to play. check this out:
https://www.lordswm.com/tournaments_hist.php?tour=33&tid=379
Mr_eee got 2nd place in minor tour with might DE
might DE requires skill to be strong. | There is might built for necro with few knowledge , to make phantom/raise dead in hunts and mass disruption in PvP or take little SP for mass delay with erudition.
at the same time, your DE can always have some SP and Kn to spam some dark spells to assist you on both pvp and non-pvp fight. of course, it would be another story if you so DESPERATE for might built and not magic allowed at all.
why didn't you support reduction in cost of offense/darkness talent
cost for offense talent, i dont feel want to explain more, some players already mention the reason.
as for darkness cost, there are something you just miss out. dark spells influence is higher than holy spells especially when we talk on those % effect.
another example: what happen if you can get full load of offense talent + dark talent? so, expert delay tag with your high initiative shrew, lizzy and black dragon? woohoo.... you wanna wipe all other units out within 2 turns and all other factions should have no chance to fight back?
it doesnt mean magic DE should be easier to be played in all aspect even admin try to push DE to magic.
yet, it is all about the balance:
- DE has balance on quality and quantity troops. so, might built is more common and magic built is another way to go. fsp is just a bonus way to push DE go for magic. by the way, magic pierce doesnt only affect on chaos spells; it also work on dark spells.
- wiz? they have none on both quality and quantity. hence, the fsp allow them to get mini art to over come the quantity problem slightly while the bonus dmg for spells in order for them do deliver more dmg to survive in battle.
- talk on the knights you mentioned before, the fsp is too important for them. like wiz, knight also lack on both quantity and quality. quantity over quality is the only thing knight had. yeah, go and have a look on a 0 fsp knight, its troops size is laughable. | Agree with Pang.
For the factions that "racial ability" is "good", like knight, wiz, nec, demon, etc... they are extremely weak at lower fsp level, making them very hard to win. But DE is already very good even at fsp level 0 | | To add to Pang : Necro with 0 fsp is also Laughable. :P | vishnus
I know DE have problems with hunter and MG, i have one additional...
But hunters can be done.
I agree with pang too. He explain better. :P | | im really... confused LOl | DE are not so strong in hunts especially after the new AI update( most hardhit are wizzy and DE) No other faction didn't have any problem with it as they didn't depend on hit and run. Many of DE and wizzy records became unbeatable.
https://www.lordswm.com/warlog.php?warid=496708754
Its not an amazing fight or a record but you still can hit and run even with smarter AI :D | | '1 built to suit all'
For me 1 built to suit means with that built the player can-
Reach NEAR HG record of that faction , do about as much as MG quests as other factions can , and in PvP has as many strength(advantage against a faction) as weakness(disadvantage against a faction) or if it is weak in one lvl, it is strong in another lvl. From now on I will call a built which meets these criterion as alround built.
i just wonder did he knew that knight was having 7 cost on def talent
Lol just 7 pts for 3 talents!!!That is overpower.Also def knight is somewhat like chaos DE, good in PvP while not good in PvE. So as per you said, sorcery talent of DE should be raised to 8 (But I don't know how over powered choas DE is).
I know DE have problems with hunter and MG, i have one additional...
He might have meant magic DE. I never said might DE is weak in PvE. They are weak in PvP. I confuse others when speaking about 2 things same time . So to avoid confusion, lets not take magic DE. I will talk about only might DE for now.
For the factions that "racial ability" is "good", like knight, wiz, nec, demon, etc... they are extremely weak at lower fsp level, making them very hard to win. But DE is already very good even at fsp level 0
That is not an advantage and should not be considered when balancing factions. When balancing factions at a certain lvl , a normal FSP lvl should be considered. I hope you well experienced for need for me to explain it to you about why it is so.Also this is a disadvantage for DE compared to knight. Can anyone tell the reason:)
I admit that might DE is not behaving that well in pvp now, but not because it's weak, but because it's hard to play. check this out:
https://www.lordswm.com/tournaments_hist.php?tour=33&tid=379
Mr_eee got 2nd place in minor tour with might DE
might DE requires skill to be strong.
These are the posts which annoys me the most . Just small part of the picture and conclusions made based on it. Take atleast all the essential part and then make conclusions.You just took one lvl and spoke based on it. Also don't consider that because there are few players of particular faction in top list of tourneys, it is because of lack of skill alone.Eventhough I faced great trouble against necros at lvl8, I could now beat necros with poisoners in lvl 9 :) | At Vishnus
I have a seriously doubt on you..At your current TG level and you keep talking about TG?loool
Try other faction 1st before you write your speech here | You just took one lvl and spoke based on it.
Fine, that's just one example I've given, but of course I have more data to support my conclusion. If u want to see more data, you can go to the stat data in HOWM daily (http://daily.heroeswm.ru/n/mt11_stat). This data is from 11th minor tournament in .ru, number of DE player participated is huge:
247@lvl 12, 278@lvl 13, 291@lvl 14, 207@lvl 15, 74@lvl 16. And their faction balance is the same as our server, so this data is VERY MEANINGFUL!
U can see clearly that might DE is not that weak as you described. Their winning rate is at about 50% which is normal.
53.97% @ lvl 12, 46.86@lvl 13, 54.10%@lvl 14, 54.68%@lvl 15, 55.82%@lvl 16
This data is from level 12-level 16, not just one level that I am talking about!! From this data I can say might DE is definitely a good pvp build, not that bad as you thought.
U said I am taking a small part of the picture, but what about u? u keep saying might DE is weak, very weak, should be stronger, then do u have data to support ur conclusion? | Try other faction 1st before you write your speech
It will take a good long time. I could only try lvl 5 barb and lvl3 demon so far. Barbs are strong as I had thought they are in lvl 5. Also I speak from the experience of my duels with other faction. I hope that is enough for me to know whether might DE is strong/weak in duels or not (not whether other faction is strong/ weak completely) . I talked about TG from the info I get from forums. But I didn't talk much about it. I just said there is no point in saying that a faction is good in TG since weak factions get balanced after some losses. Isn't that true? Also Pang has so far played only knight and now Wizard right? | U said I am taking a small part of the picture, but what about u? u keep saying might DE is weak, very weak, should be stronger, then do u have data to support ur conclusion?
Yes I have-
3rd minor tourney number of players who are in top 10%-
Level----3---4----5----6----7----8---9----10----11----12----13-Total---%Total
DE-------4---2----N----3----3----1---7----1-----7-----N-----N---28-----1.35
Knight---2---3----3----1----2----4---4----8-----3-----2-----2---34-----1.89
Wizard---3---1----12---2----4----1---4----3-----3-----N-----1---34-----1.62
Barb-----4---7----1----11---2----3---3----2-----2-----N-----1---36-----1.78
Elf------7---3----3----2----2----1---3----4-----2-----4-----3---34-----1.75
Demon----2---3----1----1----3----6---3----2-----1-----4-----1---27-----1.62
Necro----N---2----6----3----N----N---3----N-----N-----1-----1---16-----0.77
Total---22---21---26---23---16---16--27---20----18----11----9---209----10.78
About % total-
Consider a faction X has 4 players in top 10% when there are total of 23 players in top 10% at lvl3 and 3 players among top 10% when there are 20 players in top 10%. Then %Tot of faction X = 4/23 + 3/20
So %Tot of DE= 4/22+ 2/21 + ....... upto last lvl. This is taken because if faction X is strong at lvl 5 and there are lot of lvl5 players , there will be more number of faction X players in top 10% and this affect the total number of faction X players in top 10% in all lvls .
There is not much difference btween %total of all factions except DE and Necro . | You are not writing an essay..taking data from other people doesn't help you to prove that you are very understanding other faction
You'll need to use each of the faction before you voice your 'speech' here
Magic DE weak in PVP? is this a LOL?
When you are level 14 try to bash your own head.. |
This topic is long since last update and considered obsolete for further discussions.
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