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| Author | Hilarious...ambush goes wrong |
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20
Explanation:
In a normal combat, where both were standing on opposite sides of the combat area, without artifacts on both sides, your army would have a huge advantage, since he has only a bunch of poisoners for shooters, wich are pretty useless against golems and gargs (your main army); this means that, when fighting, his army has to loose systematically 1 turn in order to get closer.
You, on the other side, have much more devastating shooting and magic, from magi, genies, and hero; in one turn, you can get rid of 1/3, sometime even more, of his army.
This is why, in "normal" conditions, the basic 8th level DE is weaker than a 8th level magi.
Your point about arts, wich was pretty much mine as well (see..), isn't exactly the right one, thus: If you had, say, higher initiative and 4 points in luck, (just to give an example), pheraps *THIS* fight might have gone differently;
obviously, you will say "i am a wiz, i need to optimize wiz stuff" ( the said "steady, low risk path" wich gives lots of goods results).
Right, but then again, he found a way to cope with his weakness, and the only opponents that get good chances against him are those that take into consideration that "this could happen" (i mean, finding an opponent who increases morale, luck and initiative, like he did).
Obviously, since the number of arts is limited to 9, this also mean getting lower stats on other parameters, and this is why i was speaking about a more "risky" path.
(by the way, if you look at his profile, you will notice that hero is not wearing arts.. pheraps that was really a "travel" attire, made up specially for ambushes.. ;) ) | | You've lost me. Perhaps you should start a separate thread on whatever point you're trying to make? | StorminMerlin , sorry if my post angers you , but why are you getting so worked up about this ? It's just a fight , and the servers just so happened struck an algorithm that gave your victim morale and luck at coincidentally the right moment . Like in life , excrement happens , don't get so worked up about it .
If you want frustration , I can give an example . Try putting on 2 rings of doubt , an amulet of luck as well as several other artifacts that should give 3 luck and several other bonuses doing a lizard cavalry hunt . Watch helplessly as your ghosts are killed in 2 hits in a row and your vamps are struck down and trampled on . Watch angrily as 45 mana worth of revives are spent reviving ghosts that die in the first hit that kills all of them without enabling them to retaliate , with this process repeated until you can't cast anymore because you're outta mana . LOL , add salt to the wound by reminding yourself that even with 3 luck , only the skel archers had it and it was just once .
Like the your predicament , these are just isolated incidents , in which the server struck an algorithm that isn't kind upon you . Like I said , excrement happens , don't get too worked up about it . You can still do thief ambushes , you can still do hunts , you can still do merc quests and you can still do PVP . Just keep up the good work , master tactician , and don't be down and feel like quitting the game due to a string of bad luck . (XD , the irony ...) | | 23: Getting worked up? You haven't seen me getting worked up lol. Am I not allowed to make a point without being accused of getting angry or something? I'm sure I'm not the only person in LWM who values skill more than random intervention. | | But yeah you are right, these incidents aren't too common. I remember the arguments way back about necros with rings of luck, and the whole argument just went in circles but with +4 or +5 morale it's a different issue, particularly when the dump drops, so to speak! Now I remember why I stopped playing PvP... | | Well, the only "solution" I could think of is for us to "abuse" this tactic so that the admins notice and do something about it. What a coincidence too since I'm scheduled to switch to dark elf after getting to skill level 4. Who's with me? XD | | I agree with StorminMerlin. I also believe that pure luck (not the parameter in game) has to big influence on the battle. Isn't it enough that damage parameters can be from 3-7 or something like that? Even here the difference can be enormous without the luck and morale factor. | 21
your point is, I assume, that storm was los because he didn't equip himself with artifacts that increase morale or luck (which don't give fixed dmg, but a probability to deal more dmg)..
but, as it has been stated, even if storm use the same artifacts, he will beat DE that easily.. morale befallen on shrews is far more deadly than morale befallen on enchanted gargs, or even geenie..
lol, i guess Wiz just can't beat DE in this kind of situation ;p have you ever beat fullarts DE in ambush like this before, storm? | Well, that's because you're playing a faction where most of your units don't get morale pluses or minuses.
I think part of the problem is that you think you were better equipped than he was. You weren't. He was 23% magic proof with a 3x9% weapon. You must have some idea of how much that costs...you're an enchanter, after all. Furthermore, you can't just add up the six numbers. Luck is worth about +3 attack, and while morale is tougher to calculate, I'd take +1 morale over +3 attack any day of the week.
Finally, this was a setup that greatly favors dark elves. The shrews and lizards can reach anywhere on the board, and the shrews returning often means that they never get hit. Some factions do better in certain kinds of battles, and if there's a better setup for Dark Elves than being ambushed, I'd like to see it.
So, in short....
1. You had about equal arts.
2. He had some of the best enchantments in the game- you had none.
3. It was a kind of battle that greatly favors Dark Elves.
And you got crushed. Shocking.
Give yourself enchantments that do, oh, +76% air (A +18% enchantment on each of four items) in a PVP setup, and it'd be an equal battle. This should have been a slaughter, and it was. And you don't need to be level 8 to see this. | | 28: I've beaten a semi-art DE...but this was in the days before Mithril :D | To StorminMerlin, I have to agree that in your situation, even proper planning won't do much good in your situation given all the blingings on the units' head. However, I do believe that morale, luck and the random order of units with the same initiative on the atb scale provide an element of suprise, and the first two effects mentioned don't normally occur at such a frequent rate.
To telca, I hope you understand shrews, with tactics can pretty much the opponents units on the other side of the map and start killing the wizard's units at the start of the match, and I wouldn't agree with you on "coping with weakness". Shrews, in the middle of the map can reach every corner of the map, so what does that have to do with weaknesses? | for StorminMerlin:
There is a great game if you want to play a game where luck has no role at all: chess!
There you haven't any luck problem BUT you play with the same army of you opponent.
Here on lords, insted, the game is full of great difference and you need some luck too. It's part of this game. I've just lost an ambush vs a knight and a Mage. They played well an there is nothing to say, cause I was alone versus them. I was in great disadvantage.
I know, sometimes is frustrating to fight a battle without any chance of victory, but it's a little fee to pay for other great battles you have the opportunity to play. If you really don't want to pay this fee, play chess! (but you have to forget your miniartifacts and your spells ^__^)
I don't want to make offence to anyone. I just want to write my poin of wiev.
Bye | I agree w urgone.
and there's always some fraction like demon vs necro.
samw combat lv w same arts, we still lose no matter wat.
if tis was a normal pvp suitation.
u may stand a better chance as his shrew must take another step before attkin u plus mino, hydras slow to move.
but then again, the random morale is rare case,
but I must say DE w 4 morale is reali scary.
I hope we can have morales too.
saying for all necros... | | Look, final word is, there was nothing random about this. He was better equipped, in a setup that favors Dark Elves. Fight that battle ten times, and he'd win nine of them. He did not get saved by a lucky roll of the dice. | | Urgone you're an intelligent fella I'm sure, but what you just said is bogglingly ridiculous...tell me, how does morale work? Does it work on a 'chance per turn' basis? If so, then there most certainly is an element of randomness involved, is there not? The fact that a player chooses to equip these arts does not remove the random element. 40% chance of a second move for each creature? Are you saying this is no better than, say, + 3 defence for each creature? | No, I'm saying that 40% chance of a second move for each creature is slightly better than +12 defense for each creature.
Of course there's a random effect. But when you get enough random effects, they balance out. For example, the shrews got lucky against your genies on their first action, and did 662 points of damage. Too bad your genies had 200 hit points total, and they would have killed them all without the luck. It was a wasted lucky shot. You didn't lose because he had a string of good luck. You lost because he had average luck.
Seriously, start your battle movie from the beginning, bring up his hero's effects, and stare in awe. 9% ignore opponent's defense, +9% air, +9% earth? If your average total defense was 30 (including minis) he was doing almost 1.5 times normal damage thanks to that weapon. Just from that weapon alone, ignoring the 23% magic proof, how could you think this was a fair fight? | | Indeed, but the point of my discussion is not why I lost this fight. As I've already said his morale hits almost doubled the size of his army, all because of a random effect which totally negated any tactical advantage I had from the disposition of my army; the point is whether or not you think random effects should influence combat to such a great extent. | | for dedengkot: | + 38
Typo delete it
now to the point
for dedengkot: morale can't befall enchanted gargs and golems
as for the fight , i would say speed as a important factor than lucck.
Luck and Morale is Random but when they happen they change the tide of battle
and i accept that Morale is far better than luck in full arts and in a thief ambush.
Wat if luck was removed from battle
the genies would hav not died in the first strike but in the second
the enchanted gargs would hav died some later | About the argueing, I figured this was just to share the experience...a joke a 'lol' not a "ooh lets pounce on this merlin guy and call him an idiot!"
chill... |
This topic is long since last update and considered obsolete for further discussions.
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