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Author | The Phenomenon |
in ambushes, usually shrews die and the rest are up to hydras and minos anyway, at least it is still so for me, i havent get liz ass, in fact most of my ambushes shrews dont last unless there are little shooters and not wiz/DE caravan
yes i didnt say all hunts, i think only cases knights dont get max xbowmen are shooters, super high ini creature (or with spray), and swordmen/guardian, the rest they rely on xbowmen
and doesnt all your observation shows that DE isnt versatile, which makes DE isnt overpowered at all? why are people complaining that shrews are overpowered anyway? DE actually do least damage within a short term hunts, among all factions, except necro, maybe wiz? | https://www.lordswm.com/warlog.php?warid=482719415
my last victory on ambushing, which is awhile ago, how many shrews are left after the first turn? | for Jedi-Knight:
ru excursion :D
look, that one battle i posted here is a perfect hunt. casualties of that battle are 1 shrew on one side and 160 titans on the other side
all these good battles you posted cannot be compared to that one, in my opinion.
it may seem simple to you because you're just watching. but it takes a tactician to pull it out like that.
i suggest you try playing as DE, and see for yourself how hard it can be, before you compare them to the faction you play (and love so much). right now you're comparing your favorite faction (the only one you ever played) with the one you apparently dislike (and have never played). hm, hm, hm?
i might've agreed with you... if i didn't play DE. it was interesting for me, it might be interesting to you too. | i think only cases knights dont get max xbowmen are shooters, super high ini creature (or with spray), and swordmen/guardian, the rest they rely on xbowmen
Which is about 50% of all battles, ain't it? :p I play knights almost all my career, and believe me, x-bows is not everything to us, not by a long shot. Like I said, most knights uses a variety of troop combos, talents, arts, depending on the type of battles, enemy they are facing. It changes almost every battle, at least for me anyway. :)
and doesnt all your observation shows that DE isnt versatile, which makes DE isnt overpowered at all? why are people complaining that shrews are overpowered anyway? DE actually do least damage within a short term hunts, among all factions, except necro, maybe wiz?
This thread is not to judge if DEs are versatile or not, nor is it to say they are over-powered or otherwise. I just shared my observation that they is simply no variety in playing as a DE.
I know for a fact that I bring and max different troops to different battle, and rely on different troops, talents, might/magic build, arts, etc going into different battles.
Like I said, they go into every single battle maxing Shrews, try to protect them 'at all cost', and does it for 100s and 1000s of battles. My point is, I wanted to ask if others feel this is monotonous (very few would find doing almost the exact same things repeatedly for 1000s of time enjoying and stimulating), amongst others observation.
Of course, I don't mind my observation to be proven wrong. I like to watch and learn new stuff, so if anyone has a battle log page where a > lvl 11 DE doesn't max Shrews for even 10% of the battles, I would like to know.
When we play a game, most would probably get bored if they do almost the exact same thing over and over again, no? Of course, I alreadt said that it's possible that some likes doing the same things repeatedly, and they actually enjoy doing it. I have nothing against that.
Since I'm curious and wanted to know how others think, if any other faction is totally reliant of 1 type of unit, I started this thread and asked. :)
Of course, 1 of the reasons I play this game is because it offers variety. Every battle is a stimulation of the mind for me. Trying to win against impossible odds. Others may not feel the same, and I understand and accept that.
To me, what's the point of playing this knowing that I will use almost the same troops, talents and tactics for tomorrow's battles? And a week or months from now, I would still be using almost the same troops, talents and tactics for the next 100s of battles? What's the point really? | This thread is not to judge if DEs are versatile or not, nor is it to say they are over-powered or otherwise. I just shared my observation that they is simply no variety in playing as a DE.
not really, try chaos magic DE, though only reason i didnt continue is because they are only fun in pvping, and its too costly to play in full art (i bought the whole set, but i just cant use them after calculating how costly they are), and since SP/KN arts gives lots of AP, and people likes to limit AP so much, so... and in min ap battles, they just suck
i tried mass haste too, 20+ ini without +ini art
they go into every single battle maxing Shrews, try to protect them 'at all cost'
even though we try, in brigands and ambushes, we just cant manage to :( | Hiya, back again eh? ;)
look, that one battle i posted here is a perfect hunt. casualties of that battle are 1 shrew on one side and 160 titans on the other side
Pls kindly bear in mind that I'm NOT saying it's not a 'perfect' hunt or not a good tactic/strategy. I'm saying that that's all a DE does, battle in, battle out. Show me a DE battle logs page where a DE doesn't use this max Shrews/park lizard tactics for a hunt for just 10% of the time. :)
it may seem simple to you because you're just watching. but it takes a tactician to pull it out like that.
i suggest you try playing as DE, and see for yourself how hard it can be, before you compare them to the faction you play (and love so much). right now you're comparing your favorite faction (the only one you ever played) with the one you apparently dislike (and have never played). hm, hm, hm?
i might've agreed with you... if i didn't play DE. it was interesting for me, it might be interesting to you too.
For 1 thing, I do have DE faction lvl 1, but since I played it at level 1, guess it doesn't count. :p
Well, I know I will eventually play DE and ALL the other factions, but that's only coz I wanna get faction resistance after maxing my own, or at least get to lvl 8. I can tell you this for sure, my friend -
I will play it eventually, but I know for sure I won't enjoy it. Doing the almost same thing for 100s and 100s of times? Nope, not for me, bud. :)
I may not be the best tactician around, but I'm almost certain I will be able to hold my own against other DEs and enemy creature parking my Liz and attacking with my Shrews after watching countless battles on how other DEs do it. Wanna bet, bud? :)
PS: Knight is not my 'favorite' faction. I play knights coz,
- Since knights is very reliant on faction lvl, I don't wanna give up halfway,
- I like the variety and choices it offers for every battle.
- Playing as a knight is hard (compared to a DE anyway). Given the time it takes to get to the highest levels, I will most probably play thru' all the levels only once. So I wanna play it the hard way, and not breeze thru every battle knowing I have a very high chance to win. If I wanna play a game where I have a great chance of winning every battle I enter, I wouldn't be here. Others may not share my views, and I accept and respect that. It's just not me.
If I had known the game and all the factions better when I started, I would never have played as a Knight. I would have played as a Wizard instead, coz I think that's the hardest on average throughout the levels, esp for ambushing.
So, no, Knight is not my favorite faction, and I don't 'dislike' DE. :) | for Jedi-Knight:
ok, first of all, sorry for "accusing" you wrongly of you disliking DE.
i understand your point of view, but it makes no difference if you use max xbow in only 50% and max guards in other 50% and if you use max shrews in 100% of battles if you consider how many battles you play as one or the other. it's either interesting or boring.. it's all up to you.
as a demon i have 7 different army sets SAVED. i use even more. sometimes 54 spawns, sometimes 10, sometimes 7, sometimes 0. succubi - sometimes 7, sometimes 14, sometimes 18. incends - sometimes 30, sometimes 80+, sometimes 66 etc. and it's not what makes demon more interesting than DE. demon's play-style is very mind-demanding, gating is amazing faction skill, and that's what makes it interesting. it has nothing to do with army sets. because most of the hunts are nothing more than repeating patterns.
as for whatabusta vs titans.. that's really interesting and original idea. and that depends on human factor, and his originality, not on faction you're playing. DE allows originality, you just have to search for it a little harder :) | I disagree with you, JK. Mainly because knights strategy is around swordsmen/guardians. Being the most resistant stack, once the stack is dead, knight is out of the game. For the second place in the knights strategy are monks or griffins (I speak for until combat level 10). Those many possibilities you speak about are actually because no knight proved any of them to bring higher advantage.
On the other hand, in pvp, dark elf strategy is not based on shrews. I've seen many fights and I can tell you that the shrews are just the decoy until lizards, hydras and minotaurs reach the opponent. Also, the worst dark elf I've met wasn't a might, but a magic. Mass poison is really something.
I agree, e.g., in hunts there are very few successful strategies. But that's valid for _all_ the factions. Is it that if you find a suitable set of parameters for a hunt, you change it next time? Sorry if I don't believe you here. And, yes, hunting might be boring if you just stay in the audience. Still, for the hunter, the adrenaline is pretty high because the hunter has to compute his/her movements. And what a satisfaction you get after an hour hunt to find yourself in the list of the best hunters...
But this is not available only in hunts. In TG, MG, pvp... as well. How would you feel after beating a caravan with 18 treefolks and I don't know how many other troops? Even if you start with a standard settlement, talents and so on. How would you feel beating Army of Barbarians {14} at combat level 9 in max 3 attempts? For all these, you start with a set of parameters which you consider the best because you tested it already. But, is it boring? No way! | as a demon i have 7 different army sets SAVED. i use even more. sometimes 54 spawns, sometimes 10, sometimes 7, sometimes 0. succubi - sometimes 7, sometimes 14, sometimes 18. incends - sometimes 30, sometimes 80+, sometimes 66 etc. and it's not what makes demon more interesting than DE. demon's play-style is very mind-demanding, gating is amazing faction skill, and that's what makes it interesting.
Exactly. I know I would love playing as a Demon, and am looking forward to it! While the battles may be similar, at least I get to send different troop combos to battle!
And the gating thing. Can't WAIT to try it.
"Hmm... now where shold I gate my Hell Horses.."
"Aarrgghh.. should a shoot with my Scubbies this turn, or should I gate..".
VARIETY! I'm gonna enjoy it. I know it. :)
as for whatabusta vs titans.. that's really interesting and original idea. and that depends on human factor, and his originality, not on faction you're playing. DE allows originality, you just have to search for it a little harder :)
Yes, but at least as a knight and other factions, he can TRY it. You can't think of an orignal idea if your army don't allow it, does it?
As I pointed out in my first post, they are so many combos to get a record as a knight (and probably other factions too), but last I checked the records for DE at level 10, it's ONE setup, ONE tactic for all records, from top to bottom.
Given that at least 100s or 1000s of people have played DE at lvl 10, no one can come up with something new? Or is it like what I observe, there simply is no other way to play as a DE? Or could it be the majority of players are playing DE at that level, actually switched from other factions coz it's the easiest to win? Thus, they just go with the tried and tested. No need to think about possible new tactics, new strategies?
I have friends and people I rent my TGI to who has mailed me and told me they have a hard time ambushing as a Wiz, Necro, knight etc, so they are thinking of trying a different troop combo, placement of their troops for their ambushes. It may work, it may not, but at least they are thinking of trying new things. I have yet to see a DE asked me for my opinion about trying new stuff for their ambushes, hunts or anything. Zit. Zero. Nada.
Just some food for thought. :) | I disagree with you, JK. Mainly because knights strategy is around swordsmen/guardians. Being the most resistant stack, once the stack is dead, knight is out of the game.
Trust me, not true. There are battles where I, and other knights (even those who set records), even bother about Swords/Guards. We don't even bring them for certain battles(!), or minimize them to the lowest. At least they is variety. I go to the Recruiting page before EVERY battle I enter. You can say it's not much, but it's still variety.
Is it that if you find a suitable set of parameters for a hunt, you change it next time?
For all these, you start with a set of parameters which you consider the best because you tested it already.
You used the plural form for 'parameters'. Yes, but my point is, from my observation from watching many DE battles, there is no parameterS. There is only 1 - Max Shrews.
Like I said, I really don't mind to be proven wrong. Show me a battle logs of a >10 DE who has not max Shrews for a battle more than 90-100% of the time, and use the same tactics involving Shrews and I'll gladly and happily be proven wrong. :) | You used the plural form for 'parameters'.
I actually said a set of parameters because you have primary parameters, talents, recruitment and so on. All those I considered parameters.
There is only 1 - Max Shrews
Yeap, but they change the second maximum if you look better. I haven't seen a knight to have less than 10 monks in 99% of fights. That doesn't mean anything. | I haven't seen a knight to have less than 10 monks in 99% of fights. That doesn't mean anything.
Well, not bringing Monks don't give me more of any other units. If it did, I'm sure me and other knights would for some battles. Also, the point od this thread is the over reliant on a single type of troop and tactics for almost all battles, and believe me, Monks certainly almost always don't win battles for us knights. :)
Anyway, this thread is for voicing our opinion and I hope you don't take it personally. :) | ^^ 32: None taken :p
>>> Never see a DE bring minimum shrews once they go it but knight sometimes can go with minimum xbow. Not about DE/others is boring or versatile faction, its personal which faction you choose and which style you play but with high level DE shrews is a must, is a curse :) | I agree with Jedi-Knight's observation, and completely disagree with his conclusion.
If anything, the lack of versatility in DE makes it challenging, not easy. With elves, for example, each tier except tier-5 (unicorns) has an extremely useful ability that makes it suitable for different situations. Similarly with knights. You have the luxury of adapting. With DE, you don't. So, there are certain kinds of battle DE would really suck at, and there's little you can do to improve them. You have to make do with the limited options that you have.
That's true not only with troops, but also with talents. With DE, there are only a couple of sensible talent combinations. With knights and elves, you have so many different options.
So enjoy your advantage as a knight, and let the DE's continue their struggles. | So enjoy your advantage as a knight, and let the DE's continue their struggles.
Nooo.. dang it, don't say that! Now there may be some/many who's reading this and start playing as knights, and I'm not gonna have faction resistance against them(!)
Noooo.. DE is the best. Easiest by far to gain exp/fsp fast, easiest to power up. DE is the faction of choice for most of our top-ranked players. Play DE, all of you. Knights sux.
Knight no good, don't play knight! | With elves, for example, each tier except tier-5 (unicorns)
wrong. there is a huge difference if that enemy wizard kills 15 or only 9 efk each time he casts a lightning.
I also think minotaur and poisoner are underrated for their good abilities and hydra overrated for their slow movement and being large | wrong. there is a huge difference if that enemy wizard kills 15 or only 9 efk each time he casts a lightning.
I stand corrected. For some reason, I kept thinking that only the unicorn upgrade (Silver Unicorn?) has the Aura. So yeah, every elf tier is useful. | Hunts: average/high (at high levels wizards and knights are better)
Knights better than DE in hunts?:) | You wanted a DE with minimum shrews, I just watched one:
https://www.lordswm.com/warlog.php?warid=482962976<=-1 | #39.
That's a duel between friends. I don't think they are even serious/bothered about winning or losing. Look at the knight. The Monks was attacking the poisoners for 2-3 turns at a spot where the Hydra can attack it and the Guardians, when moving in 1 tile to attack could have prevented that.
I went to Caboom combat log, the last non-PvP/duel battle he did, he maxed Shrews.
But that being said, thanks for the link. Much appreciated. It's good to see a DE willing to try out new stuff and went for magic build. At least it's a refreshing change. :) |
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