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| Author | The Phenomenon |
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Hiya all,
First off, lemme start off by saying that this post in no way implies anything negative about any players in this game. It's just an observation and I'm hopeful that the posts here will shed some light into stuff that I'm puzzled about.
Since I reached lvl 8, I've made it a habit to watch my faction's hunting records to give me an idea of what to expect every time I reached a new level. I was glad I did coz I learned quite a lot from watching those battles. I mean, there are so many ways to play! - Different troops combos, talents, to go might or magic, tactics, strategies, etc.
Every time I go into a battle, just like a general of an army, I have to take some time to plan for the battle.. haha..
- What troop combo is best suited for this battle. Max Guards? Max Xbows? Leave Griffins behind?
- What talent combo should I use to face these enemies,
- Should I wear some arts that will give me more mana/spell power,
- What troop should I use as protectors of my shooters (if even the battle requires it). Recruits? Guardians? Griffins? Monks?
- Should I forgo some attack/defense arts and go with more mana/spell power?
Endless possibilities.. 1 wrong choice could mean the difference between victory and defeat. I love it.
Here's some examples of how knights got their records:
Titans: https://www.lordswm.com/warlog.php?warid=479723773<=-1
Strategy: Who would think of using shooters against shooters to set a record in a hunt?!
Combo: X-Bows/magic build/Holy magic + Avoidance.
GMB: https://www.lordswm.com/warlog.php?warid=479840462<=-1
Strategy: Guardians and Monks to the fore. Grifs & X-Bows secondary.
Combo: Guards & Monks/might build/Rally + Luck.
Sprites:
https://www.lordswm.com/warlog.php?warid=473926951<=-1
Strategy: Open layout.
Combo: Guards/defense build/Holy magic.
Spawns: https://www.lordswm.com/warlog.php?warid=473800038<=-1
Strategy: Not a single Guardian! Grifs as wall.
Combo: Defense/magic build + Archery talent.
Ogre Magi: https://www.lordswm.com/warlog.php?warid=480961965<=-1
Strategy: Grifs as 'stallers'.
Combo: Pure might/magic talent. No defense.
A myriad of troops combos, placements, tactics and strategies to choose from. The planning before a battle was just as fun and enjoyable as the battle itself.
Part 1 | Then recently, I was curious about how the other factions play their battles. As DE seems to be the 'popular' choice of high level players, I started there. To my surprised/shock/dismay/whatever, almost across the board from top to bottom of the list, I found that there's basically only ONE way to play as a DE(!?) - Shrews. Protect the shrews at all cost!
Puzzled (and amazed), I checked some high levels (> lvl 11) DEs' hunts, quests, ambushes etc. SAME.
Hunt in, hunt out, quest in, quest out, ambush in, ambush out, they are totally reliant on their Shrews. Every battle I watched (about 30 of them), it's the same – Shrews and a parking attendant. Split as many Shrews as possible, park the Lizard next to an enemy and then attack with shrews. Protect the shrews at all cost. Tier 5 Hydra? Throw to the enemy. Tier 6 Dark Witches? Throw to the enemy. Tier 7 Dragons? Throw to the enemy. Nothing left? Throw the Liz in as well..
Tactics? Strategy? Nada. Zit.
I looked at some of the battles of players who have played most of their lvls as DE, and when it comes to GBs, the minute they lose their Shrews, they are 'lost'. This probably stamps from the fact that hunt in, hunt out, quests in, quests out, ambush in, ambush out, they are totally reliant on their shrews. There is no Plan B.
A lot have been said in the forums that DE is not suited for GBs. Could 1 of the reasons be due to the fact that from the time they get their Shrews, they are totally reliant on them?
The second a DE loses his/her Shrews, there's simply no Plan B for some/most of them. 1000s of battles have inculcated in them that without Shrews, they are as good as dead.
Part 2 | So here are a few things I would like to hear your opinion about:
1) We all know that quite a lot of players switched to DE when they reach a certain high level. An obvious reason (as mentioned many times in the forums) is that the DE army is more suited for most battles like hunts, quests, ambushes, etc.
But I don’t get this part. Can someone honestly tell me as a fact that it’s impossible to reach the highest levels playing as other factions? I believe the answer would be - No. I believe there are already people playing as the other factions that have all made it to the highest levels.
I have seen countless posts in the forums asking what’s the easiest faction for thieving, etc. Since most of us will only play through the levels once given the time it takes to reach lvl 13-14, why choose the easier route?
Isn’t the journey as satisfying as the destination itself?
Is getting to the top as fast as possible really the best thing? Given the uncertainly about updates and stuff, and not knowing if we are even gonna get lvl 15, why the rush to get there? If you do, and there are no updates… then what?
2) I asked a close buddy of mine who’s lvl 13, he is playing as a DE now but used to be a knight. I shared these thoughts with him and asked how he feels. Here’s an excerpt of his reply:
I remember I had a lot of different combination of talent and troops for different mission as a knight. Now I have only two talent combination and two troops combination (some top players with 1 only) as DE. DE is the easiest (or stupidest) faction in PVE.”
So does playing hunt after hunt, quest after quest, ambushes after ambushes doing almost the exact same thing... fun? I mean, after looking at quite a lot of high level hunts/quests/ambushes (and my bud’s response) of DEs using the exact same tactics, talents etc, regardless of what enemy they are facing, repeatedly for 100s and 1000s of times… over and over and over again.. can it really be fun? Isn’t 1 of the reasons most of us play a game is the mental stimulation and satisfaction we derived from it? How does choosing the easier/faster way to ‘complete’ a game, levelling up etc, do that?
Don’t get me wrong, I can understand players switching factions to gain some faction resistance or who have reached lvl 14 with no lvl 15 in sight. But to switch factions just to get an easier battle? Hmm.. there are games like tic-tac-toe – Easy, almost identical every game and not much grey matter needed.
Like I said, this post is not to flame anyone or any faction. Just sharing my thoughts and wanting to hear the opinion of the rest of the community.
Thanks in advance. | As a former knight I have to pretty much agree with you. But I've switched back and forth a few times to knight and it's just not easy. HG, MG, TG.... all are super hard. Just to add variety I've played elf and plan on switching to some other faction too.
Cause although there's much variety with knights, eventually even that gets boring. | HG, MG, TG.... all are super hard.
Yes, m8. I totally agree with you. With the number of ambushes I have done (and lost). I probably would be lvl 12 going on 13 now if I had switched to a DE. haha..
While not implying that you did/didn't make the right choice by switching to DE, I looked at a player like Antos, who got to lvl 14 playing solely as a knight (not saying it's good or bad) and did pretty decently in all his guilds, and I said to myself, "If someone else can do it, why can't I?".
And don't get me wrong, the dark side is indeed very enticing, and I have on more than a few occasions been tempted. :p
But I'm pretty sure just about the only reason I will switch to other factions (not just DE) is to get some faction resistance and when lvl 15 is nowhere in sight. :) | ^^ In overall, i agree that right now high level DE is just shrew based faction.
Its cheap but also simple way and that's why i stop to be DE at lvl 8 :)Although is not necesary to be like that, but ofc most ppl would choose easier way.
>>> I dont know much about knight but if you really boring and hungry for new challenges, try switch to wizards at high level ;) | I have played a lot DE so far, because I loved the faction ... and I see this:
Hunts: average/high (at high levels wizards and knights are better)
Duels: average/low (tough to win a duel)
Group: low (almost always the first faction to leave due to poor shooters and low HP)
Thief: high (thanks to high initiative and speed of shrews, poisoners and cavalry)
Mercenary: average/high (as above, but necro and knights can sometimes be better)
Being Ambushed: best (at least you can do some damage before being annihilated) | Yes, m8. I totally agree with you. With the number of ambushes I have done (and lost). I probably would be lvl 12 going on 13 now if I had switched to a DE. haha..
That is little bit wrong i have played 3 levels as DE but it did not change a thing,if my Shrews died in 1st turn there is no way I can win the match and why only 2 talents.there are different DE you can be like poison DE,mage DE,defensive DE.:) | I dont know much about knight but if you really boring and hungry for new challenges, try switch to wizards at high level
Hiya bud. :)
haha.. tell you a little secret. Imho, I sincerely believe that Wizards is possibly the strongest faction at the highest level. With the number of talent points, a tier 7 shooter like Titans, triple mini-arts of their choice, and the yet-to-be introduced level 4 & 5 level magic, Wizards will rule the kingdom of Lordswm eventually. :) | Hiya Tyrisia. :)
if my Shrews died in 1st turn there is no way I can win the match
Exactly what I'm trying to say. DE without Shrews is like a fish without water. --> Dead. :)
and why only 2 talents.there are different DE you can be like poison DE,mage DE,defensive DE.:)
Maybe at lvl 10 and below. But those I watched are lvl 11 onwards, and not a single battle have I seen has a DE rely on anything but Shrews and might.
Magic? No.
Poison?? No No.
DEFENSIVE??? No. No. No. :p | With the number of talent points, a tier 7 shooter like Titans, triple mini-arts of their choice, and the yet-to-be introduced level 4 & 5 level magic, Wizards will rule the kingdom of Lordswm eventually. :)
Correction. I believe I read somewhere that there's supposed to be FOUR mini-arts per unit type. That's really scary.. | | That's exactly why faction balancing is being performed on .ru. While all other factions got a quite demanding boost in troops, we are getting nothing :) Quadrable mini arts did appear in .ru's but was then removed, but they should be back at a very high level only. | | ^^ 9: Yeah but wiz bad at doing ambush, at least before some sphynx and giantass, it will be one man show with little running statue. Not to mention luxury mini arts ;) | Jedi-Knight, let me, please, post my idea why is the situation as it is:
there are two types of players - ones play this game in their leisure time and just for fun, others are TOP players :)
I am not saying TOP players have no fun, but they have to work hard to keep their current ranking. That's why they choose the easiest way - DE.
This opinion is based on Lineage 2 - I have been playing it for 5 years, 2.5 years I spent 8+ hours a day online just to keep up with the best. And no, it wasn't always fun, it was farming, farming and farming again for most of the time. I can't tell if LoWM is same since I am far from TOP here, but I believe it is a similar case. | | [Post deleted by moderator Zyanya // ] | It's a matter of perspective, you can't really judge players because their idea of fun differs from others (not that I'm suggesting you're passing judgments). Some play to improve their skills in every guild/faction, some just to race to the top, some just want the easy way out, some just like the simplicity of having to log in and do a few few easy battles and then leave etc. Yes it is true DE is easy to play as it stands now, everyone seems to use the same "tactic" and so forth, but many truly enjoy that sort of thing.
Personally, though, I do like playing DE but I can say the same for all other factions as well that I've played both here, with my alts and the .ru server(except necro which I haven't played since lv3 so dunno). I find something enjoyable out of every one of them. But DE is easy to level, so I want to get that over with first and get some defense bonus from it for my other factions :P | | ohh can't you write small sentences.It is very hard to read a topic with huge word.i got headache by reading:( | not true that DE is boring faction with only one strategy. there is the best possible strategy to keep shrews alive, and you stick to it whenever it's possible, but sometimes you need to sacrifice shrews. and sometimes you need to think a lot about how to keep them alive and sacrifice other units to do so.
i've played all factions for more than few levels (here and on .ru) except for wizard. and imagine how would it be, if i created a topic on how demon is much more interesting than knight.. for me it is, for someone else it isn't :)
btw, next time look a bit harder if you want to see DE versatility, because it exists.
and the best hunt i ever saw is Kiskoko vs Titans, and it's much more about assailants than shrews:
https://www.lordswm.com/warlog.php?warid=478523605<=-1 | if my Shrews died in 1st turn there is no way I can win the match
Exactly what I'm trying to say. DE without Shrews is like a fish without water. --> Dead. :)
same thing for knights in hunts isn't it? xbowmen dead -> knight gone
they rely on xbowmen on almost all hunts, maybe except those like cerb
at least for all of the lv 10/11 knights i assisted | and the best hunt i ever saw is Kiskoko vs Titans, and it's much more about assailants than shrews:
https://www.lordswm.com/warlog.php?warid=478523605<=-1[Full] [Chat]
Hiya bud, dropping by from your ru excursion? heh.. :p
Ermm.. I don't get you, bud. Isn't that example exactly the same as almost every single battle a Shrew do?
Shrews and a parking attendant. Split as many Shrews as possible, park the Lizard next to an enemy and then attack with shrews.
same thing for knights in hunts isn't it? xbowmen dead -> knight gone
Ermm.. not true really. At least not for me. I can name you a lot of battles where I don't use max X-bows. In fact, if I have a choice of increasing my other troops without bringing X-Bows in those battles, I would. :)
These are some of my battles taken from the last page of my battle logs alone. None of them do I max X-Bows. Almost none of them X-Bows lasted till the end, and the battles covers hunts, quests and ambushes.
And "xbowmen dead -> knight gone"? Nope, I won all of them. :)
https://www.lordswm.com/warlog.php?warid=482903215<=-1
https://www.lordswm.com/warlog.php?warid=482907465<=-1
https://www.lordswm.com/warlog.php?warid=482917836<=-1
https://www.lordswm.com/warlog.php?warid=482919465<=-1
https://www.lordswm.com/warlog.php?warid=482920350<=-1
https://www.lordswm.com/warlog.php?warid=482929694<=-1
https://www.lordswm.com/warlog.php?warid=482931318<=-1
https://www.lordswm.com/warlog.php?warid=482932132<=-1
https://www.lordswm.com/warlog.php?warid=482934821<=-1
https://www.lordswm.com/warlog.php?warid=482937886<=-1
https://www.lordswm.com/warlog.php?warid=482938054<=-1
https://www.lordswm.com/warlog.php?warid=482940115<=-1
https://www.lordswm.com/warlog.php?warid=482903645<=-1 --> I don't even use X-bows for this one. I use the Bowmen!
Now just for discussion sake, show me a > lvl 11 DE battle logs page where the Shrews are not max for 99% (if not 100%) of the battle. :) |
This topic is long since last update and considered obsolete for further discussions.
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