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| Author | Ap Rule |
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| Besides this is meant to be the free version of HoMMV, if people want to pay for upgrades early fair enough, but gold stops people from playing all together because of ap rule and having to pay for a free (It is advertised as free forever)game doesnt mean its free and advertised wrong. | I was honestly surprised to see so many people who wanted the min ap rule removed. Its very easy to build up enough gold to afford min ap- I got bored and played myself down to 0 gold on roulette the other day and had only three durability left for two of the three arts I use for min ap, but its very easy to rebuild enough gold just through hunts and enrollments. Once you get to the higher levels it becomes even easier because of merc guild quests.
If this game didn't require you to have gold then it loses the economic dimension, simple as it is, that it currently has. As it stands its easy to make enough gold for min ap- even if you don't do any hunts or quests, just enrolling whenever your online will be plenty enough. You get rewarded for doing more than that, hunts/merchanting etc, by being able to afford better artifacts, and being able to afford to join a clan and the thieves guild.
So I don't think theres really any problem with having a min ap requirement- it just adds a little more complexity to the game to give players something to think about before they spend all their gold on roulette :)
Just as a side note, I noticed the person who made this thread has little gold, no arts equipped and is severely down in both tavern games and roulette. If thats why you have no gold you really only have yourself to blame, managing your gold carefully is a part of the game. If you don't want to do things like hunts and quests then I suggest you don't play tavern games or roulette :P then you will still be able to easily afford min ap. | but gold stops people from playing all together because of ap rule and having to pay for a free (It is advertised as free forever)game doesnt mean its free and advertised wrong.
try to get yourself clear on the word 'free' and 'paid' in any online game.
the 'free' in any online game only refer as you dont have any monthly access fee to pay like WoW. so, do LWM collect any monthly fee from you ?
while the 'paid' in all 'free' online game refer to exchange RL currency into game value item such as gold, avatar, gear and so on. as usual, you can choose to not have any 'paid', but just follow normal procedures to get whatever you need; OR pay to get certain advantage.
the gold in LWM can be earn without 'paid'. you can have that 'paid' advantage if you have some penny to spend on.
Just as a side note, I noticed the person who made this thread has little gold, no arts equipped and is severely down in both tavern games and roulette.
roulette is the primary factor kill them, follow with laziness on enroll LG. | Back when there was no AP requirement the economy was stagnant. No one wore artifacts for the majority of their battles. The economy was so bad the game developers had to FORCE players to spend their gold, which in turn would turn the cogs of the economy.
The compromise was the minimun AP rule. It's a good thing because it encouraged people to play the game more how they intended.
Remember this game is defined by it's artifact system (artifacts are an expense NOT an asset for those who fight in combats) and need for an economic sensibility. Only those without the latter or miss the point on the former complain because let's face it.
"This is the crux of OUR game!" | The problem for this is just the system as a whole.
Each single money affecting issue is mostly logical and understandable on its own, but everything together somehow is just not the optimum.
Actually i like the system as a whole, since when having a great pool of money to resort to, its really well done :-)
There is just one little flaw, as there is the possibility for "poor" people to get totally knocked off.
No weapons, no money to buy them, workaholic reached 10% => BAM, takes 1 week, just a guess, to get stuff going on again. And that is sad, because it causes the new members to this game and its community to quit.
If somehow this can be prevented we would see an increase of not-leaving-newcomers. The results would sadly not effect the already left ones, since they all are done with this game already, and not the "bad" rumors (or whatsoever) about this game. Even though it would be an increase to the player numbers some time in the future.
So, that we don't face just empty and complaining words here, i will add a few suggestions, i just can think of, how that could be achieved:
-Increase of level 5 levelup reward
-Let a BIG message pop up at level 5 that clearly states the new situation
-Remove/Lower min-AP rule
-Implement some REALLY low cost artifacts (like the "old" cloak of fire) with no, or even bad effects, but giving AP; so that one does not have to kill 10 goblins at level 14 with a firebender staff, but that low cost "shit" items
-Remove/Lower workaholic effects
-Implement something like a "once in a week, for free, useable item/potion/..." that either removes AP restriction, or gives the needed amount
-Implement an option to fight without any equipment, but getting a 10% chance of being hunted down by the Empire's forces, and getting punished (any bad effect like morale -5 for some time, since your troops lose the trust into you/...)
Just a few ideas :-) | I own you all? Man you are still saying the same things and not acknowledging the fact the:
AP RULE SAVED THE ECONOMY!
Also if a player spends their last gold and cannot afford arts blah blah blah they failed at the game. Plain and simple. | AP RULE SAVED THE ECONOMY!
And? Did I say any time different?
If you read what i wrote you know my point of view, and I for my part don't only say "hey man, you are wrong", I give reasons, facts and opportunities to change things to the better.
Also if a player spends their last gold and cannot afford arts blah blah blah they failed at the game. Plain and simple.
Why? You are definitely not the friendliest guy on earth, right? | Why? You are definitely not the friendliest guy on earth, right?
I am sorry for that.
Just what to say is that we actually argue at a very high level here, its all done pretty nice, but as I said its just not the optimum.
And why not improve it to perfection?! | All those in favour of removing / reducing the AP rule or any other permutation of the same type of thing (cheaper arts etc etc)
I read your arguments, don't worry about that. Also I do try to understand you but I am NOT convinced that vast numbers of people are put off this great game by the AP rule. If they are then they might need to change the way they play.
Gods forbid they would need to play more how the game developers intend and not ask that the game be changed to suit them. Especially if what they request will have negative effects for all the players (removing the AP rule or "reducing it" will in all likelihood push the economy backwards).
And only through extremely poor management can you go broke with no chance to fight and earn full wages, therefore it should be seen as a player problem not a game problem. If you play any games poorly you usually lose or see a "game over screen" and here going broke is I guess the equivalent of a temporary "game over screen".
But what fun is a game which is so easy? Which we can play roulette all night till our last 1 gold piece and still afford army supplies? Is that how it needs to be?
I respect those wanting to increase player numbers. I too wish to see the game flourish, new players etc. But removing the AP rule or any permutation of that basic idea probably won't cause the numbers to swell. Advertising would. Telling people about the game would.
Enjoyment and trying to overcome the challenges are what games are all about.
Fun AND easy games? Do they exist? And if so would you like to play them? Not me. Challenging games are more fun. | I agree with you there DarwenAward, but as I_own_you_all said perhaps we should have some more cheap arts and perhaps some very cheap arts that have bad points?
Ie Broken Sword: -1 attack. | I_own_you_all has some great ideas which actually probably belong in a new thread, they're that good.
A huge warning sign when the player reaches level five to tell them that the game just changed and arts are mandatory. At this point nothing seems to exist which says that and people are often puzzled as to what to do.
Increasing the level up payout at level 5 would help them get up to speed with the minimum AP rule, and perhaps some new arts for those who don't mind weaker stats in return for cheaper Ammunition Points. The light axe is about as close as we get at the moment to what you ask. Perhaps the economy wouldn't suffer too much by this. | A huge warning sign when the player reaches level five to tell them that the game just changed and arts are mandatory. At this point nothing seems to exist which says that and people are often puzzled as to what to do.
Well, at first we had this man in the book telling you what to do and he disappeared as soon as you have reached level 3.
But with the grand update 2 there was an extended tutorial, he now disappears as soon as you reach level 5. So I am not sure what extra things are added now, but maybe he mentions it | No weapons, no money to buy them, workaholic reached 10% => BAM, takes 1 week, just a guess, to get stuff going on again. And that is sad, because it causes the new members to this game and its community to quit.
another simple solution: learn how to manage your treasury. it is good to learn that even for RL usage :) | I never said you had to donate. I said it was a solution to money problems. But money problems only occur if you don't put in any effort.
You can enrol 10 times before doing a fight. That's 2000 cash about, as LG 1. About 4000 cash at the LG I am at. a Min AP figh, costs about 200 gold at worst. That's 3800 gold each combat. Not factoring in MG items to sell, hunter arts to sell, the gold from the fights, etc.
If you want multiple factions, that's a big cost. You want to be a thief, that's a big cost. Those are optional things that donating makes easier. | I do agree with some of the suggestions here. A warning on your character page when you first reach level 5 explaining the min AP requirement would help, although if I remember rightly your guide for the first 5 levels says something along the lines of "from this point forward you will be required to continually carry equipment". This could be made clearer however, and I doubt all players bother to read through everything he says as it is a bit long winded at times.
As for cheaper arts, that would have to depend on how much cheaper you mean. There still needs to be at least some requirement for players to engage in the economic side of the game, its part of what makes it a challenge outside of just going from battle to battle.
As it is, it's possible to afford min ap by consistently enrolling when your online and not wasting it all on roulette. If you go beyond that and do things such as hunts and MG quests, then you are rewarded by being able to do things like using several factions or joining the thieves guild. As is said in the post above, donating makes these things easier. One of the things I like about this game is that there is nothing that is completely exclusive to people who donate- donating just makes things easier that can be accomplished through careful resource management in game.
The idea of having cheaper arts which have a negative impact on your parameters is a good one. At the moment only people who spend all their gold on roulette and rarely enroll will be having problems with meeting the min ap requirement That isn't through a flaw in the game, it is through bad gameplay on their part. This would be a way of having negative impacts for bad gameplay, while still allowing people to carry on playing and, if their gameplay improves, afford better arts again. Like DarwenAward has said, challenging games are more fun. | +1 Use ap who wanna use, if you wanna still use basic arts go ahead.
Who vote no, is because is profiting lot money by market, selling min ap everyday
But think only not on yourself, think about everyone.
The number of players maybe increase, and if does more things will be selled on market, mainly middle and high level arts, will open a new door with alot new possibilities
And other thing, if you fight without lose money with min ap, you also is profiting money...
Probably this idea never gonna be accept because staff wanna such we money to have more donation, but like i said, with more players the number of donating can be increased too.
My vote is +1 | In my opinion, removing roulette would be better than removing min AP rule.
I am not rich, but wearing min ap and enrolling 2-3 times per PvE combat and doing PvP only when game gets REALLY boring, I make small and steady profit. I also stopped playing roulette on lvl 4 | there are only three kinds of players in lowm when it comes to gold
very rich-doesnt have what to do with the money,full inventory,gh set,ench items,etc
poor-keeps on the flow line
more poor-0 all |
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