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AuthorDoes anyone find Elves in Thief missions are overpowered?
I do thief missions with Min AP and obviously win/lose some missions.

However out of all the missions I win none of them are vs Elves. It just seems they're really strong at least for me (a dark elf).

Obviously the caravan has higher AP than me but at this point after hundreds of missions it is balanced out with other races.

It still seems though that winning vs elves is almost impossible compared to other races.

Tips or general thoughts are appreciated.
If you want my opinion, I honestly find Elves OP in every single way. ;)

They have just NO WEAKNESSES WHATSOEVER imho, all their melee troops have 6-7 speed and high iniative, except for Treefol that can just root any enemy stack the player wants to deny it from attacking sb else.
Plus their archers are really good as we all know, they normally have Ranged superiority.

And then there is this alt class which is the best PvP race right now.

+ the low cost of their Luck talent tree and the possibility of getting the talent that increases every unit's speed by 1, which can allow Forest Brethren and Unicorns to get 8 speed.

But again, its just my opinion.
Well, now that I think of it this post of mine ^ seems like a complain and a little off-topic, sorry for that.
the only downside is they're made of paper ...
get them in the range of some heavy hitters and they're finished....
but of course with the modified AI system its no easy task...xp
they're made of paper
they're made of paper

very fast and sharp paper.

you must outspeed and outreach them to win.
the only downside is they're made of paper ...
get them in the range of some heavy hitters and they're finished....
but of course with the modified AI system its no easy task...xp


Works in low level, but good luck killing a full stack of upgraded uni stoned. Normal elf at least can't kill me in 1st turn but alt elf with all 8 speed army, super ini, morale and spells is a bit over the top to me.
Elfs are so overrated in everything..but others factions are not
Innate swiftness build is very threatening, especially if unicorns or brethrens get luck/blind/crit... it feels like game over in the first few turns :D
I still don't know how something like blind is fair. It can make your core unit useless for 2+ turns.. which is a lot in PVP even without considering elves initiative.

Their weakness has to be low hp and that they rely on luck for being able to deal ridiculous damage without any offense talents... even though you can expect their luck to trigger on almost every turn.
luck/blind/crit...
Charmers don't have critical unfortunately :/
Well, you can't expect admins to significantly weaken elves because there are a lot of people who play as an elf.
Elves do have weaknesses, for example, I don't agree that they are the best PvP race right now.
Like if you look at the past MT results, elves did awful, given their insane population, very very few of them were at the top.
I also think it is quite difficult to play 2vs2 as elf or charmer elf if in min ap.
However, taking everything in account, especially PvE, elf is my favourite at the moment :)
The topic is about the Thieves Guild's AI elf, and yes, it is pretty op there. Mainly because the new AI system. The new AI fits well all factions, but a fast one like elves with all those archers is specially hard. It used to be a lot easier before the new AI. Now, they usually don't let their archers being reachable as they used to be, and the fast speed units (EFK, Sprites) get some nice spots (for them).

About the other opinions...

And then there is this alt class which is the best PvP race right now.
Not truth, the continuous troop reduction from this alt class made it "balanced", at least from adm's point of view. Like somebody said, look the MT's records.

the low cost of their Luck talent tree and the possibility of getting the talent that increases every unit's speed by 1, which can allow Forest Brethren and Unicorns to get 8 speed.
For charmer elfs, the luck talents cost 10 points, and the morale talents cost 8 points. For standard elfs, the luck talents cost 7 points and the morale talents cost 10 points. It is well balanced. Other factions, like Fury barbarians, can get some sets of strong talents for a very cheap cost. Both their offensive talents and luck ones cost 7 points... their morale talents cost 8 points. For both elf and charmer elf, offensive talents are not cheap (10 and 9 points).

even though you can expect their luck to trigger on almost every turn.
More for some than for others =) That's why now I preffer to play pvp as charmer elf.
However out of all the missions I win none of them are vs Elves.

As a tribal I can feel your problems. In 50% of ambushes against elf caravans I get shot down by archers within two turns. All I can do is equip arts with initiative bonus, do a very offensive start setup and hope for morale bursts and luck with the ini bar at first turn.
I've just watched this battle from your log: https://www.lordswm.com/war.php?lt=-1&warid=719430111

In this case it may be better to setup at all sides, not just 2. This way you have better chances to get to the center archer stacks faster. Maybe worth a try.
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