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| Author | Is this game Pay2Win? guilds/leveling up - Discussion |
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Before I start, keep in mind this is not supposed to be a thread about whining so I hope it doesn't come off that way. This is inspired by the recent drama regarding EA and their decision regarding Battlefront II, if you haven't been keeping up (time to crawl out of the rock) look it up.
This made me think, what stops a whale from buying a ton of diamonds, getting a TGI early, get early castle upgrades etc that is fine imo, the part that irks me is the absolutely necessary items. Ring of cold, sun, BoL etc. Don't even get me started on the absolutely ridicilous sets that exist.
I understand that you can enroll and get the same effect, and this game is free(I would personally call it "freemium") and many will disagree with me but I'm not sure how healthy this model is. Clearly it's good since it has several thousand people playing at any time, but at that point I think many people here are just because of this thing called the sunk cost fallacy. Dedicating so much time into something that it feels absolutely horrible to quit at this point. Which is what I imagine most players who are still around are going through.
Leveling up and guilds is another thing I've been thinking about. You are extremly discouraged from doing PvP's or joining tournaments. Would a new player stick around and grind a HUGE amount of time until they do the following:
1. Reach (at least) level 9
2. Get TGI and a few levels in the guild
3. Gain a few levels in other factions to not get absolutely shit on
4. All other guild bonuses that are so necessary for PvP
5. Save up enough gold for all the Arts
Alright after that you can finally start to play in Commander's Guild
However, what stops someone from buying a full Rare set and bust it out and demolish everyone in PvPs? I realize they are not allowed in tournaments/CG's and that's a good thing, I wouldn't still be here if it was otherwise.
I'm sure someone can do the math on this one and get back to me with the amount of months/years this list would take and then try to explain whether or not this is healthy for any newcoming players. I really love the Homm franchise but I'm not sure how I feel about this game as a whole.
Again as a ending note, if you interpret this as whining then I guess it probably is. However that is not the intent of it. I'm genuinly curious what the community thinks of these points, especially the grind and model of it if you want to be competitive in PvP's.
Player banned by moderator Corey until 2017-11-17 23:34:24 // F.R. 4.4 // It is strictly forbidden to use foul language. | | Topic moved from "Queries and help" to "General game forum". | This is a debate that will never go away ;)
I think the admins have made improvements with the introduction of alternatives to the shop arts in the artifact shop. Once they've introduced alternatives for the remaining shop art equivalents, there will be a little more balance in battles.
The mindset that you have appears to be that you ought to be competitive at each and every level and across every event. For example: Don't even get me started on the absolutely ridicilous sets that exist. I don't even think about the impact these sets have as I do not do clan battles and there are so few events with no limits on arts, that I don't see other players getting a massive advantage from having them.
bust it out and demolish everyone in PvPs Why bother? Would you get enjoyment out of it? That would be a waste of money and I think it would be rare to see anyone competing in a rare set in PvP (let alone competing in PvP outside of CG ;)
I think there are advantages to donating - But I still think that the game does an okay job of balancing the interests of donaters with those who play freely. | | i think we should made the min AP a fixed requirement in duels and group battles. Then the free users may enjoy the excitement of the game without being extremely stressed if other wealthy players use full arts. | I'm sure someone can do the math on this one and get back to me with the amount of months/years this list would take and then try to explain whether or not this is healthy for any newcoming players.
As someone who is a relatively new player (started in June 2015).
It doesn't really take that long to get TGI. I think my first caravan was October 2015, and I hadn't purchased any diamonds at that point.
Took me a while to do the others (except reach level 9), but that's mostly due to my own incompetence.
I think many people here are just because of this thing called the sunk cost fallacy.
Since I have started, I have donated, but I don't stick around due to this fallacy, I stick around because I enjoy the community (at least the ones in the Skype chat and not the idiot posters on the forums). Though I have gone through this sunk cost fallacy with a previous game (spending over $2k, whilst as a student). And I don't really see it from many of the others.
And one could argue
4. All other guild bonuses that are so necessary for PvP
That this will never be achieved. | Leveling up and guilds is another thing I've been thinking about. You are extremly discouraged from doing PvP's or joining tournaments. Would a new player stick around and grind a HUGE amount of time until they do the following:
1. Reach (at least) level 9
2. Get TGI and a few levels in the guild
3. Gain a few levels in other factions to not get absolutely shit on
4. All other guild bonuses that are so necessary for PvP
5. Save up enough gold for all the Arts
1. You can do PvP earlier but yes it not very good. I'm sure almost all of us did it though.
2. TGI is overestimated and now a bad guild. Only the extra ini is good, but fsp ratio horrible and you get few points per battle (you lose a lot so no guild points). Extra ini is crucial for elves but several factions barely ever need it. 4% ini will NEVER get you more turns against same faction. If you're say tamer leveling more other guilds will do you more good.
3. Overestimated too. Below FL 10, you're better off improving your main to get there faster, the bonus is massive. Up to FL 12, you should still clearly work on your main, you'll want a bit of other faction level (4 max). Past fl 12, the shift is on faction resistance, but that's a long way until you get there. IF you really want it, you can still have decent faction resist with minimal investment. I built mine with tier 3 or 4 and a fort. Barbarian castle, I don't even have the fort, so I spent like 3000 gold on it!
4. Ok, now I agree. I wish tables were more balanced so you could forget guilds you don't like. Still you can live with a not perfect character, I should do more WG for exemple but it's too boring.
5. It's not that hard. It only is if you want everything (lots of castle, play lots of PvP, rare sets,...). You can play for free but if you want all the extras you'll have to give tips to admins or work for it. | This is a free to play and and also pay to win game (as most f2p games are).
I'm enrolling for like 10 years and still don't have much gold for a normal game play :)
I've wasted millions on Smith and Enchant guilds, but it was fun to me, so no issues here.
But this game is mostly dead for me since I can no longer play the way I like, because huge xp is awarded everywhere, so NOT TO PLAY is the the only way to stop getting xp :) | | Lastly I will add that you don't have to do all of this to enjoy the game or play PvP. I have played it frequently with disadvantage (with low fsp after the merge or with no DU on DU levels), lost more than I should but still enjoyed the PvP for what it is. If you play to win, obviously you will be frustrated but otherwise it won't prevent you from enjoying PvP for what it is, and sometimes even win against the odds (I remember beating one guy with a DU and one more faction level for exemple). | I think many people here are just because of this thing called the sunk cost fallacy.
I love the game don't get me wrong, but after playing the game for 8 years the thing that will always keep me playing is that I surely can't let all those hours go to waste by quitting.
Then I think of all the future hours I'll have to spend by not quitting, and I do it anyway, because one day wizard will be great again I swear :_( | absolutely necessary items. Ring of cold, sun, BoL etc. Don't even get me started on the absolutely ridicilous sets that exist.
I stopped reading here, made me think you have no idea at all,move one | Apologies Atheros, that's the arts I see using at my combat level. I realize Rare sets can't be used in CG's and I mentioned that it's not that big of a deal. I just recall reading the set bonuses in the wiki thinking how OP it seemed.
Thank you for your answers so far and sorry for wrong subforum.
>But this game is mostly dead for me since I can no longer play the way I like, because huge xp is awarded everywhere, so NOT TO PLAY is the the only way to stop getting xp :)
Yes and I feel that this is a big problem stopping me from really getting into the game.
Compared to a game like Hearthstone which also has the "free to play but pay2win" model as some would say you get rewarded by playing. You can grind ranked matches and keep earning cards, it feels like you get punished for leveling up without getting your guild levels up. I do like this game and I'm used to grinding, so that's not really an issue just felt like if I was going to make a rant post I might as well get everything out of the system :) | you're being too serious. Just play all guilds at your leisure. Enroll whenever you see that are unemployed. If you are the type who can play many pvp battles everyday, then its likely that you will be weak character wise. But even then you would still be doing okay
in pvp because its that much easy to have an average character. The only guild you have to really be any serious about is TG and it should happen eventually if you decide to save up gold from level ups. | you are below average character. of course you rant.
this game have big gap for player who play well (not only in battle, but also character build), and player like you. everytime I see CL 10+ without TG, poor fsl, and lack of guild level its make me cringe. "this guy play only to be fodder for other player" | This is inspired by the recent drama regarding EA and their decision regarding Battlefront II
From what I understood from the news the issue is random reward for real money.
At least that is the accusation that it's actually gambling.
Now part of the legal defense (didn't work in Asia apparently) is that:
1. You can get the same with playing
2. (not in all games) you cannot take any "gain" out of the game. Which BTW is why trading real life money or property in exchange for in game advantage is forbidden by the rules.
In case this bother admin, and this is one of the reason they do not develop the English version, they can:
- Remove the luck factor from the chest of abundance (they already partially did for Armaments, that appear in all chest)
- Remove chest from game.
I do not know how other player use their chest, but I usually do not open mine: so I do not have to waste time to get rid of the arts :P
Personally I donate regardless of the chest. | I'm genuinly curious what the community thinks of these points, especially the grind and model of it if you want to be competitive in PvP's
Keep in mind that PvP is only a small part of the game. Most players only play PvP from time to time, and many never even bother to (I usually only play PvP towards the end of a CL, when my char is comparatively stronger). It's very challenging to build a char that is competitive in PvP, you need:
-to build guilds
-to gain anti-skill
-to watch many battles in order to master the strategy of all factions and builds
-to raise enough gold for arts
If you care to devote more time to the gold-raising part (this is "Lords of War and MONEY"), be it the development of LG or trading arts (the best merchants make millions), you'll eventually have enough gold to allow you to play the game in whatever fashion suits your fancy. | Is this game pay to win?
Laborers' guild: 6 (3918) +1082 | | No it is not a Pay to Win game. Before merge I was free to play gamer an managet to win loads of survival tournaments. of course at some point I was drunk and decided to quit and in order to do that I thought to gamble all my money and roulette to make it easier, Unfortunately I won than:). I had loads of gold than and could't quit:) I donate sometimes but never changed diamonds for gold and I meet loads of players here who can win without donating. If you enroll enough you can achieve everything. And even if you donate a lot and don't enroll you don't get defense stats. Without competitive stats its hard to win even with loads of donate. And all guilds to get stats (hg, mg, wg, cg) are free. Even TG is considered as free if you are keen. So this game is not about donating but camping, enrolling and patience:) | This game is totally not pay to win.
Everything (except for UCI) can be purchased and used. Pay to win involves in game luxuries that can only be acquired via real money.
Also, things aren't that grind hungry. | This game is totally not pay to win.
Agree.
Except for DU (Yes, you can buy Diamond with Gold, but its a lot of work) in Odd levels, I guess.
But in general I agree with you, I honestly dont feel "Behind/Below average" for not Donating, compared to those who do. |
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