About the game
Sign in
Top Players
Authorization required
You are not logged in
   Forums-->General game forum-->

State of the meta


AuthorState of the meta
Just a little thoughtpiece on the meta, after playing recent tournements.
And since this recent one is a bad random, i wanna focus on the 1v1 tournement.
We have always had winners with Du's on the relevent levels and that has stayed the same.
But the big change i have noticed is this Most faction play with high def low atk, i have even seen elfs do this and it does work, but the big question is why, i have a few theories and i would like to hear what you guys think.

1. it works like rock paper siscor with darness and holy players being the joker cards.
We could see this as atk > mage >def>atk and i have seen less and less mages recently which could explain the boom in defend builds

2. defence is simply better.
defence is simply better in most factions and people only r4ecently noticed this, lets check for DE (which i played)
hydra's can almost not be killed with some good defence because they have great hp
poisoners deal true damage with poisen atk has almost no effect on them, but defence surely does
dark witches who cast spells, dont need much atk for that, in lategame they can use atk yea.
and lizards whith armour piercing charge who have to enter enemy lines but deal massive damage even with 0 atk

3. its all about the hype
we have all seen it, a few 100% winrate players who are boosted as well use a strategie, and all the sheep follow, due to that most players use defence, so the ones that end up high do as well

What do u guys think?
1 2 or 3 or is there another reason i did not think off?

ps. this post is mainly based on what i have seen in recent tournements fropm lvl 10-15
As a dark demon with temptresses, I hate seeing a defense player because I know seduction will not help me as much as I would like it to, especially against tribals. I mostly just wait with tribal creatures so they lose 100 spirit. With DE and TDE, I always try to take lizards because they have defense reduction. On the other hand, I know that I can disrupt their defense down to a more suitable level with darkness talents. Not that I answered your question, but I feel I provided a specific perspective.
I play as a DoF battlewise - I like it when I see a defensive build - in the last tourney I only lost to attack builds and another of the same build

Generally speaking defensive builds are more consistent and forgiving than attack builds. One mistake/piece of bad luck and it is all over as you will take a lot of damage. This makes them perhaps a little more inconsistent to play with and needs more feel of PvP to make work (when to charge, when to hold back etc)

The perhaps more significant aspect is to do with arts. For a good year all the winners of 1vs1 tournies used rings of cold - this favoured defensive builds as they give a lot of defence. People using the same build with the more obtainable and therefore commonly used by all equivalent shop rings also then promote the same idea.

It would be interesting as to whether there would be so many defence builds if there were shop equivalent rings of sun around
That is the main reason why I dislike playing Might)
And if I were to play Dwarf or Demon, I'd also probably play Holy or Chaos in these Factions too.

There are SO many things that Stop Might Builds from working properly ... So many ways of Crowd Control:
All the types of Dark Magic, very high Defence, all the ways of Crowd Control (Blind, Mayhem, Stun...), that I just gave up.
+ The difference between Archers - Melee in a battle, I was just fed up.

I honestly understand Admins now not willing to favor Magic Builds as much as Might (There isn't really a seasonal Magic Item, for instance), otherwise we'd see even Chaos Dwarves in battles, Lol, defending in corner with Bears and Veterans.

Magic overall can just cripple might units SO much (Dark), buff them to become monsters (Light), or hit them strong no matter what the defence is (Chaos).

Yesterday I saw a CL 6 with Mass Rapid in Mixed.
I found it funny, but he was actually very intelligent going like that.

And sorry for the random speech about Magic, but I'm pretty much sure I'm not the only one bored by Defence builds, so tries to find a "Counter".

PS: Alt Dwarf is coming, and also Alexander mentioned something about adding Nature spells maybe (I'm optimistic and patient it'll happen).
Also, next tourney might be EOFO Tourney (Where Tribes n Shadow Barb rule), so it wouldn't surprise me that the "Defence meta" changes by player's, or Admin's actions...)))))
PS2: I admit I haven't seen any Chaos Wiz tho in Mixed, IDK why.
This actualy kinda works like rock paper scissors in 1vs1 situation.

Fast Attack Might > Chaos Dark Light magic > Defense > Fast Attack Might
might seem like rock-paper-scissors but there are a lot of variables statistically.

Only a few legit cases of rock paper scissors - UN vs chaos of similar levels, chaos mage vs wizard with lodestones and DoF vs tribals. The last one is not very very reliable but still close enough.
The game has changed so much compared to when there was only 7 factions and no classes. )))
And you could only swap factions every 24h, and potion of oblivion was 2.5k.
God those were some times. There were a lot more one faction players in those days..
6# True.
I think the categories made in Post 5# are right, but Classes like UN (Which can be Might, or full Nature, Btw) and BW don't belong to any of these groups you mention probably.
You might wanna call them "Sustain" and "Burst", or something like that. :P

Anyway, as I mentioned, I see the Meta changing "A lot" through the next 2 years.
Maybe once they introduce new Spells or Items (If it happens), once they make the remaining Classes then focus 100% on the Meta, or simply after successive Mini Balances after Tournaments end.

You guys can see for instance DDs not ruling AS MUCH as before (Changes to Vermins, Consume Corpse, and Delay).
To be fair at this point and time the game is quite balanced, almost every class can get 100% winrate in 1v1's, which was defo not the case in the past
To be fair at this point and time the game is quite balanced, almost every class can get 100% winrate in 1v1's, which was defo not the case in the past

Yes, as long as they are BW
the meta is not so much in low level but becone more and more significant in high level, since you get more and more free attribute points. for example, a demon with 20a 30d can handle a chaos caster as well as might at level 10, but a demon with 30a 60d stand no chance against chaos casters while 60a 30d stand no chance against might, at level 18.
this is why most of battles ends when it starts at high level, 1v1 become a lucj or scanning game. on the other hand, mixed battle is quite complex and fun, although some balance may be even worse than 1v1, but most matches are full of unpredictavle and fun.
Yes, as long as they are BW
really? here is a list of 100% win bw's / lvl
10 - 0/11
11- 1/12
12 0/3
13 0/8
14 1/6
15 0/8

so in conclusion 2/48 players who reched 100% in 1v1 were bw's doesn't seem that op
I think we are all talking about different things.
Do we talk about 1v1, or Team?
Yes, as long as they are BW

It's a joke, haha. I'm just referencing battles we have all seen like Ingenious's level 19 friend who took on two other level 19s as a BW wizard and won.

Here's the link to that battle in case anyone missed it:
I am simple man , i use a hellfire Demon and attack whatever i see doesnt matter if they have high offense or high defense. :)
hellfire demon is good against defense? I thought it was physical dmg
but hellfire damage isn't reduced by def, does it?
The problem with holy is that you are static- sit there quietly till your spells are in place. While your opponents whittle down your wardens. Knight is a prototype might faction- and as expected lose to everything. There are one or two 100% winners at level 15. All were fsl 12 and got lucky with their opponents.
Meanwhile, here is a list:
Darkness beats any knight. Just get the Paladins by the temptress. Or a delay.
Magic beats defensive knight. Difficult if offensive knight.
Tribal beats knight, by ramping up spirit.
BW beats knight. There is a particular build which is fireproof.
DE has a good chance against knight.
Dwarves have an equal opportunity.

Holy is a good build for mixed tournaments, though.
for thomas14:
for virtual_vitrea:
hellfire is physical pure damage, it ignores atk, def, defense talents, magic resistance, magic immune, the only reduction works is "reduction for all damage" like fsl resistance and ability like spirital.
This topic is long since last update and considered obsolete for further discussions.
Back to topics list
2008-2023, online games LordsWM