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| Author | Discussion of the balance. |
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| If you are an interpreter, I can start translating key topics on the balance sheet. I hope there are people who are interested. I do not want to litter the forum. | Sorry, last message was bad translated)
If you are interested, I can start translating key topics about balance. I hope there are interested people. I do not want to litter the forum. | | Considering how non active this forum is compared to russian one, any translation or information is extreemely welcome here. Thanks for your efforts. | for Hunter Thompson:
Will really appreciate that! Thanks for all your efforts :)
Though the forum is inactive a bit, but many english players still read them but don't reply to thread, so your translations will help them as well. :) | Hey guys, I'm here again, with a new translation for you. This time the post of the character "Free your Mind [17]
There may be many mistakes, but I tried)
"It's no secret that the Holy Magic (HM) is now in a very poor state. It is defeated by almost all factions. Even the Holy Knights, for whom this is the main feature, and those from holy magic have not played fights for a long time, except that low-level buffers in mixed battles.
Why is light not playable? To begin with, because of its specific coverage area inside the 4x4 square, these units become extremely vulnerable to chaos, so after the meteor rain, amplified by the "elemental call" of the dark elf, there will be nobody, who need HM.
Secondly, the Build of HM is very vulnerable against atackers, against which there is nothing to oppose in the beginning. While the hero's turn comes, nothing will be left from the army.
Thirdly, HM lose to darkness magic (DM) in everything in the current realities. Stand in a square 4x4 in a number of cases (including, as was described above when playing against chaos) is not possible, but to NOT get into the square 5x5 of DM very hard. It would seem that one cell difference, but the effect is enormous
In this regard, I think it's fair to raise HM, make it more competitive to the dark and other builds, increasing the variety in the game. It is worth noting, by the way, that darkness is generally against all. It is universal and in any fight it can be used, even against chaos.
I have suggestions:
1) Make it possible to use the HM in a 5x5 square, or reduce the area of ​​darkness back to 4x4 and add an additional skill in the branch to both schools that would expand the area from 4x4 to 5x5.
2) Recycle the Dispersion spell. From him in a number of cases, more harm than good.
Untie its effectiveness from the value of "spell power". Lack of skill - removes 1 random spell of darkness from an allied unit with 50% probability. Initial light - removes with 100% probability one random debuff, advanced - adds the ability to remove buff from the enemy, artful - removes 2 buffs (debuff).
3) The spell "Antimagic". Leave as is, but do not dissipate the current effects from the goal (both positive and negative), i.e. the spell plays a role in fixing the effects.
4) Recycle the mechanics of using spells of light and darkness in group battles (especially in mixed fights, when players of levels 10 and 20 are encountered in one field for example). It's not a secret that if a low-level user of the XM meets in the battle, then this is a very strong advantage, it's not normal for a player whose strength in combat is assumed to be extremely small, throws a slowdown by 50% for the 20th and thereby alone action decides the outcome of the battle.
Therefore, the proposal: to reduce the effectiveness of HM / DM / "Dominion of fire" by 7% for each difference in the level. This means that if the 15 lvl throws a deceleration on the 20th (either by hero or by creature - it does not matter), then the deceleration efficiency will be 40% * (1-0.07 * 5), not 40%. approximately 26%. Likewise with HM and DOF.
Either make it so that in one fight players do not intersect, whose difference in levels is more than 2. It is not interesting at all to fight against 20 lvls, as against 9." | 4) Recycle the mechanics of using spells of light and darkness in group battles (especially in mixed fights, when players of levels 10 and 20 are encountered in one field for example). It's not a secret that if a low-level user of the XM meets in the battle, then this is a very strong advantage, it's not normal for a player whose strength in combat is assumed to be extremely small, throws a slowdown by 50% for the 20th and thereby alone action decides the outcome of the battle.
Therefore, the proposal: to reduce the effectiveness of HM / DM / "Dominion of fire" by 7% for each difference in the level. This means that if the 15 lvl throws a deceleration on the 20th (either by hero or by creature - it does not matter), then the deceleration efficiency will be 40% * (1-0.07 * 5), not 40%. approximately 26%. Likewise with HM and DOF.
This is an excelent idea. However, it should only affect hero casts, and not unit casts. No changes done to DM and HM spells cast by units. | 25# I'm not surprised Free Your Mind said that, she/he's such a good player when it comes to tactics/strategy. Also very friendly.
She/he doesn't go unnoticed in a battle.
And I completely agree with each and all of the points:
- Darkness being effective against pretty much ALL Builds (Holy, normal Might, and Chaos).
- ... And low-lvl casters having WAY too much impact (CL 10 BW with DoF halving CL 22's Armor, or even CL 8 DDs halving CL 22's Ini with Delay) for their lvl in Mixed Battles (You could pretty much see this blatantly in last Mixed Tourney, and Facepalm).
- Also 5x5 Darkness Box being way too big, you pretty much target like 1/6 of the battleground Lol.
- Anti Magic dispelling previous effects makes no sense.
Reason why HKs can't protect themselves against Chaoses.
But hey, I hope these changes (If they do them, which will probably happen in X months, since you saw they made Rapid Vs Delay equal, meaning Admins have Holy in mind) don't go way too far, or it will totally kill DD and Shadow Barb :P
Sry for speech) And thanks for translations. | | Antimagic and dispersion, at the very least, should not be taking away buffs. What is the point of a spell which takes off your own buffs? The knight gets the short a]end of the stick against too many factions. | | *28 if they didnt, those spells would be wayy tooo over powered. Antimagic should make an unit immune to magic completely | *28 if they didnt, those spells would be wayy tooo over powered. Antimagic should make an unit immune to magic completely
the efficiency of antimagic is too terrible for that. | If you are interested, I can start translating key topics about balance. I hope there are interested people. I do not want to litter the forum.
I don't think anybody will mind, thanks for translating!
Personnaly, I think that instead of trying to fix tribal spirit for just unholy it should be reworked, as of now no defense build can beat them. I think tribal spirit gained should depend on the amount of troops killed, so if you go defense tribal, yes you will absorb a lot of damage with spirit, but you will gain little. Then it will make attack or a mix of attack/defense more viable. Of course buff troops number if necessary.
About holy, Free your mind made good points. One thing I never understood is why brilliant unicorns have the child of light ability (all holy spells are cast on them). Charmer elf is already a rusher faction, it is designed to kill casters with this it is just overkill. Guardians or ogres with child of light, that I would understand, they are slow, the ability is a good counter to holy, but unicorns?
Other "imbalances" (I think darkness is a good comparison):
- confusion VS avoidance: confusion is also useful against melee (retaliation) so better
- delay VS rapid: 0.6 ini VS 1.4 ini: the effect of delay is stronger. Let's take 0.5 and 1.5 for ease of comparison:
1 ini (ennemy) vs 1.5 (holy): holy troops gets 50% more turns
0.5 ini (delayed) VS 1 ini (dark): dark creatures gets twice more turns (for two creatures with similar initiative). Hero also twice more spells for each creature move
- teleport VS blind: Every dark caster use blind, teleport is barely if ever used. Not useless per se but too situational.
I will also add, I think holy knight is bad, because it relies on shooters. The strenght of holy/dark is melee. Shooter builds work when you can kill ennemy shooters before they shoot you, so you try to move first and hit hard. Knight shooters move last. They *should* hit hard but they don't because holy use defense build and need several hero turns to get the buff going, so it can't even use classic necro strategy to stand and suffer with skeletons but prevail eventually. So you just have to rush and kill the knight, then block the wardens and its fancy shooters become useless after one or two shots. Dark barbarian and demon work because they have strong melee and virtually no shooter, holy knight is the opposite of what a good holy build should be, it only works against really slow factions that can not handle the wardens in time.
So, Undeads will lose the normal -20% HP on Raise of Undead? (-40% for Livings)
This Nerfs Nature UN, and Buffs Melee UN, since it mentiones a Pseudo-Fervor after Raise (Since you guys know, a Raised Undead has 0 gained Ini).
More like unholy is back to 20% HP penalty if I got it right. It's not very relevant to talk of "buff" and "nerf" since nature will also be buffed with summons, wall and punch while the actual weaknesses of raise unholy are trying to be addressed by making it more aggressive (cheaper damage talents and free rally) with extra troops on top, the changes are too big to simply be labelled as buff or debuff.
The new perk is the "label of Nature". A creature that has received damage from a magic punch will receive 50% more physical damage over two turns. damage from the army that placed the mark.
I suppose this will make people play Nature/Melee-Hybrid Wiz n UN? Interesting.
Maybe UN will be able to get something out of it but as wiz I still don't see how nature can be viable, the build still not offers a quick way to kill shooters (and I can not raise like a necro would).
Antimagic and dispersion, at the very least, should not be taking away buffs. What is the point of a spell which takes off your own buffs? The knight gets the short a]end of the stick against too many factions.
Antimagic, I don't understand the purpose, it is too weak and too s | *Antimagic, I don't understand the purpose, it is too weak and too slow against destruction and useless in any other situation.
Dispersion must remove holy spells, otherwise dark will stand no chance against holy, that would be fixing an imbalance with another imbalance. | With all of these things going on...
I'm honestly curious as to what Magic Schools will Alt Dwarf have access to.
maybe Nature and Chaos?
Nobody has access to these 2 together, except for Wiz ofc (Wiz gets 3 schools to choose from). | | The current trend is one magic school per alt faction, only alt knight is the exception (and unholy but it only have talents for one school). | Surprisingly, I'm liking 99% of the Balance changes Admins are making.
In last year they changed a lot of stuff, and all balances I found that they made total sense, or were logic. | | I think dwarf has become OP against many factions now. | | I think darkness demon is way out of balance mostly due to temptresses | | Good thoughts about holy magic. Holy needs the 5x5 area spell as well in my opinion. | It is based on the fact that being HM you can place your troops in that 4X4 area and easily get buffed.
But, if you face a DM you will spread your troops. Hence for DM 5X5 is required. | | Make things interesting: give 6 Talent points per CL. |
This topic is long since last update and considered obsolete for further discussions.
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