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| Author | Necromancer faction: Stats, Talents, Tactics, Strategy |
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Posioners, have more attack than rogues, with count number, i was looking it, 10 rogues can chance for 24 posioners with rally, at level 7, posioners without posion per turn, make more dmg than rogues at melee hit, also keep killing everthing with posion.
If you change rogues to posioners *
They got more dmg at melee hit, and also got extra dmg from posion.
And can be used at range too, to do some moves.
Recruiters have stun, if you 3 - 4 recruites, with good initiative they have, you have alot chances to make enemy initiative run away with from very very far away... giving time enough to get a monster kill.
If you put 3 - 4 in your army, and with good initiative they have *
Just some corrections, im not good at english. | Recruiters have stun, if you 3 - 4 recruites, with good initiative they have
They have 8 ini, while zombies have 7. Speed is the same.
Yes i know, infect is very good, but with battles full ap, is a bit useless...
There's no point in using them in min AP; as with every other slow unit, they need defense to survive, and deal good damage with retal and next hit.
They are not as impressive as appas, or your wolves, but that doesn't mean they are a bad unit.
Posioners, have more attack than rogues
What's about shrews, that DE should have when necro get I.zombie? :) | I never said they are bad unit. i just said they ins't impresive like my wolfs.
Yes, zombies are better than recruits, but zombies is tier 2, they need be better.
The problem to infect kill shrews, is reach. I don't think some one will put they close to block archers or lich, if no have no one unit to assist him, and to do this, he should be might DE, and might DE, have no chances agains darkness necro.
You really don't need zombies to kill might DE, if youre darkness necro.
And zombies is so easy to counter it, you need only, make one range unit, or unit like shrew, split with 2 low stacks with 2 - 6 to kill zombies, don't need waste no one turn...
Agains magic DE they are complety useless at battlefield.
Slust think with me, using infected zombie with min ap, what will happen, the enemy will get more fast 0 defense and 0 attack, this will make him complety useless, with poor attack, and very very easy to kill, but if he got full arts, this don't gonna works very well, because he still haddle a good dmg, and a nice defense from arts, the points of use infected zombies at pvp, is make one unit useless and kill him fast.
And all fasters units, are almost immune to zombies, because they can't get close, and will be killed before he get close. | Shoacan, being full arts or min arts doesnt change anything to the Infected Strike. Let me explain
A Full Art Necro vs A Full art DE
35 Att, 25 Def vs 35 Att, 25 Def
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On creature...the infected strike will do -4 Att, -4 Def (so the bonus will be 31 Att, 21 Def
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A Min Art Necro, vs A Min Art DE
28 Att, 12 Def vs 28 Att, Def 12
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On creature...the infected strike will do -4 Att, -4 Def (so the bonus will be 24 Att, 8 Def
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The creature will always be the same 'Easiness' to kill since the margin stays the same. | I know amount infected strike don't will change...
But i just sayind without arts have better effect because...
If you have 20 Def and 15 Attack, without arts, and if your zombies do -12 attack/def with 3 strikes..
You gonna have 8 def and 3 attack left, this unit don't gonna kill anymore nothing, and is very easy to kill him..
But with full arts, let's say the full arts give 20 def and 20 attack...
So he gonna stay with 28 defense and 23 attack...
Still can kill something, and still got a nice defense...
I know what you mean, ok he will have 28 / 23 but you have too full arts...
Yeah but, darkness necro, is one hybrid build, ins't full might, so i have less attack power and less defense than might build...
The both count gonna be equal, not give me advantage, at less im might necro.. | | Shaocan, you are always talking about Darkness Necro. Can you please stop and be a bit more Generalist. Talk for the Whole Necromancer Faction. | But i just sayind without arts have better effect because...
Let me reillustrate Dan-Panic's point
A Full Art Necro unit vs A Full art DE unit
35 Att, 25 Def vs 35 Att, 25 Def
If a DE unit has been infected thrice, his stats become 23 Att, 13 Def.
Before infection: Necro attacks DE - (35 att vs 25 def = x1.5 damage)
After infection: Necro attacks DE - (35 att vs 13 def = x2.1 damage)
Before infection: DE attacks Necro - (35 att vs 25 def = x1.5 damage)
After infection: DE attacks Necro - (23 att vs 25 def = x0.91 damage)
Comparing before and after infection, the necro will do 40% more damage and receive 40% less damage.
A Min Art Necro unit, vs A Min Art DE unit
28 Att, 12 Def vs 28 Att, Def 12
If a DE unit has been infected thrice, his stats become 16 Att, 0 Def.
Before infection: Necro attacks DE - (28 att vs 12 def = x1.8 damage)
After infection: Necro attacks DE - (28 att vs 0 def = x2.4 damage)
Before infection: DE attacks Necro - (28 att vs 12 def = x1.8 damage)
After infection: DE attacks Necro - (16 att vs 12 def = x1.2 damage)
Comparing before and after infection, the necro will do 33% more damage and receive 33% less damage.
Of course things will start to look different once his def reaches 0, but a stack being infected 3 times is already a lot, so it's not very likely to happen.
I don't understand why we are comparing Poisoners, Recruits, or even Rogues and Shrews. We're talking about the usefulness of Infected Zombies right? Takesister said they are a threat to enemies, and more so than Recruits and Poisoners. But your point seems to be that Poisoners > Rogues , and Recruits = high initiative ??? Seriously?? And suddenly Shrews got into the picture. Of course Shrews can hit Infected Zombies many times before they can even come close, and then Shrews can run far away again. But it is not fair to compare unit with unit. You have to see the whole picture about how Infected Zombies value-add the Necromancer's army.
It doesn't even matter what tier they are, unless you're comparing which faction is stronger, or comparing which tier 1 or 2 upgrade is the best. The original debate was whether it is worth it to get Infected Zombies at level 6, or build the Blacksmith. | to Skuwak,
lol, you are eloquent | I stay with my post above. Usefullness of infected zombies is very limited. Beside monsters with huge attributes, you can employ them for low level thieving (lvl 6-8).
In pvp battles they are mostly useless, even as protection for your bows, better to split of some ghosts or appas, as they can be missed. I mostly recruit 0 zobies to give me another slot for splitting appas (or ghosts).
Of course you can employ a big stack of infected zombies as poison build, but honestly since hp doesn't change and your might stats as poison build tend to be poor normal zombies would do almost as well. | İnfected zombies are good at
Hunts:Powerful but low monsters,like tier 7
Battles of level 8-10:They can easily defend your bowmen
MG monsters:The best way to kill them
But they are completely useless in thieves guild and high level battles,they die before reach the enemy. | | In the mixed Tourney I found infected zombies to be more useful than ghosts. A single magic arrow spell could drop an entire stack of ghosts. A stack of Zombies has an amazing amount of hp. I had the most success using 1 stacks of ghosts as retal takers and to protect my skele bows. Use infecting strike against the opponents highest defense/HP unit and then follow up with vampires against the infected unit. I fought a knight with diamond upgrades who had crusaders and pretty much turned his crusaders into a HP bank for my vamps. | | omg , the spirit link just saved my life against 86 royal griffins :) see this battle https://www.lordswm.com/warlog.php?warid=495684073 | Skuwak Before reach shrews max posioners is the beast way, rogues got 2 points more initiative, and so what? Posioneres melee got more damage than rogues, and also will kill with posion 2/3 times.
About zombies, with GB or CG 2v2 3v3 They should be more userfull, because have alot of enemeys, and less space to walk around, but also have more probbly your zombies get killed before reach some one...
And Skuwak, with might necro build, you right about infect, but with darkness...
The amount of atributes gonna be equal, darkness got less atributes, like anouther magic faction...
I don't see infected zombies, the beast unit for pvp, since. | Shaocan, you are always talking about Darkness Necro.
Lemme add my 5 cents to that discussion :)
The reason he talks [mainly] about 'darkness necro' is simple: necros are meant to play off of using the darkness magic.
And to illustrate my point I'll provide you with some battlelogs of myself playing as a 'darkness necro' with 4FS lvl:
https://www.lordswm.com/warlog.php?lt=-1&warid=26945706
That was a fight versus the Army of knights {18} and I'm 101% sure I would never manage to beat them in a very first try if I wasn't playing that 'darkness necro'. Especially with FS lvl4.
Same story with the Army of barbarians {18}:
https://www.lordswm.com/warlog.php?lt=-1&warid=26989399
I mean this 'darkness necro' build is a really significant thing to try and to play.
The most popular necro [magic] build is a poisoner but for some reason lots of players underestimate the other 'darkness build' and use it rarely.
I mean that combo build of dark magic + nature helped myself set that tigers' record this year playing as a necro FS lvl2 (only).
Please don't get me wrong here, I'm not boasting or anything like that, I'm just trying to share my experience of playing that 'darkness necro' [somehow] unpopular build and illustrating it's significance in ways of adding that diversity to playing a necromancer. | for cantbstopped:
Yup but this topic isnt Darkness Necro Build, its all necro build, and Shoacan should also see the other builds when he answers in here. And you are boasting :P | #34
Those battle are fullart+enchanted
darkness build dont work so well in min ap | Atheros, no one build works with min ap, but with max ap, darkness is the beast way than might.
Dan, what i can say, you can make a might + nature, or might + defense...
This is your choce and you can make it, and be happy, and talk alot of this build...
But my build is darkness, and i gonna talk about my build, not about some one else build i don't use.
Atheros, you think with full arts, you can defeat Kights army (18), at first time?
If you can, show me battlelog please. :D | #37
dude i haven't reached army 18 yet.
i can do it when i'm level 13:)
i'm not saying darkness doesn't work!
it works but only in full art.(lack of attack in min)
might build works in min ap very well. | Yes, might is better to do hunt at begin, i agree with you, and also, is more easy play with might than with darkness...
Because all is more simple and your damage is alot more, vampires heal more, ghosts kill more, skells, lich, death, skell dragon etc.
I know you din't say darkness is bad, but pvp and hunt, is two things complety diferent, im saying darkness is better than might to pvp battles, and most of times the people hold full arts, mainly CG fights, so darkness is better to do that...
But to do hunter, might is alot more cheap and faster than darkness, darkness can be a really hybrid build only at high level. Before that you got few points on attack power...
But it ins't bad too, i can do all hunters with very low attack power with darkness build, but take alot more time to do one hunt (at low level and middle leve), so we concluse might have the your advantages sure it have, like darkness advantages too.
Ok, its is starting be interesing, if you guys want compare one build than anouther build, let's start say the pros and counters of each build.
Well, darkness is great to pvp, at 1v1, very nice to 2v2 and 3v3 battles, and also can do hunt things, just take more time... | | I just swapped to a might build from darkness build (mainly mass delay). I actually really like both. I had more fun with the darkness build in Pvp. I am tempted to go back to darkness, but I think I will actually try a hybrid. |
This topic is long since last update and considered obsolete for further discussions.
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