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| Author | whats the point |
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for vishnus:
Read again, the second paragraph of your post is totally baseless of my post, I was talking about Necro faction, and you DE faction. | Magic no good in hunts and MGs.
oh... i wonder how the hell i can get my medal in hunt without using max AP ROFL
Well you yourself said the reason for unbalance in might and magic in DE built. It was not talent points fault. And why are admins forcing DE to be magic ? Magic DE is stronger in PvP at higher lvls which can cause unbalancing in PvP .
the talent cost affect much in combat preparation. dont tell me that you will choose random talent and jump into fight. as i said, there are reason behind the re-balance on talent cost: one of the reason is admin want to push DE go more into magic. so, increase on offense while decrease on chaos and dark magic.
yet, it doesnt mean all DE will choose to go magic path too. most DE still prefer might due to most of your fight are non-pvp based and those are your main source of exp.
beside the pure might and pure magic built, you still have an option called as HYBRID built, gather on both might and magic. it is just the matter on how you distribute your strength on might and magic.
of course, the word hybrid is hardly found even on other faction topic. it almost categorized into magic built because the involved of magic on those might based faction.
for your DE case, you can always go to hybrid of offense and dark built. | for your DE case, you can always go to hybrid of offense and dark built.
yes I thought about that. But that is tough since dark talent too costs 8 points. Thats why I wanted atleast reduction in dark magic.
oh... i wonder how the hell i can get my medal in hunt without using max AP ROFL
Lol I am amazed such a great player doesn't know it!!! :)
Well even with full arts magic DE is no match for full art might DE in hunts? There are hardly/none records made my magic DE.
Also in HOMM5, magic DE had elemental chain ability and wizzy didn't havebonus damage against neutrals . So magic DE could deal much more damage than magic wizzy.This was to compensate for more spells and survival ability and mini arts of wizzy whlie DE has low net HP , offense units. Neutral creatures had less HP there compared to enemy heores(enemy player equivalent here) .But here neutral has more HP.Admins compensated inability of magic in PvEs of wizzy but did nothing for magic DE against neutral while removing elemental chain ability.After doing nothing to magic DE against neutrals, admins force DE to be magic :) | Well even with full arts magic DE is no match for full art might DE in hunts? There are hardly/none records made my magic DE.
none of us said the chaos built DE can work in non-pvp fight. DE doesnt have bonus spell dmg in hunt. but, the chaos DE can work great in PvP.
somehow, most DE still prefer might due to most of your fight are non-pvp based and those are your main source of exp.
1 built to suit on most battle without keep changing stats, waste gold on artifacts and potion. that's the important point which you had miss out.
Also in HOMM5
you just forget that this is LWM not the HoMM5, not all HoMM5 setting can be applied here. we cant recruit countless troops like HoMM5, hence the magic is too powerful to wipe opponents out in afew casts.
even without chain cast, chaos DE still can deliver fancy spell dmg. this had been proved since the last blindfold battle.
the reason for wizard to have bonus spell dmg due to the quality and quantity of troops wasnt sufficient for them to survive.
DE has low net HP , offense units.
it seems like the one who play DE doesnt knew its own strength and weakness. i would agree if you talk on low total HP on recruitment if you talk on recruiting max shrew (since more DE do that). you still have some meat like mino and hydra.
did nothing for magic DE against neutral while removing elemental chain ability.
1st of all, the chain ability had NEVER been implemented. so, i dont see how it had been REMOVED.
admins force DE to be magic :)
again, your DE still have dark spells to go with. it doesnt mean magic must go to chaos path | I agree with vishnus..
Magic DE should hav some advantage in hunt like wiz otherwise why would 1 go for magic build.
Also like knight has 2 7 pt section in Talent wheel and escort only 5 :P
(rally = 7 killer )
while elf can buy luck & holy magic with 7 point only..
(1 hand u hav nature = summon phantom & in other U hav chastise ** oops deadly)
this 2 r tip of the iceberg.
DE must hav some thing to fight.
[both magic & might] | 1.1 built to suit on most battle without keep changing stats, waste gold on artifacts and potion. that's the important point which you had miss out.
Thats the point I have been trying to bring to you all the time. Magic DE obviously doesn't suit the above.
2.none of us said the chaos built DE can work in non-pvp fight. DE doesnt have bonus spell dmg in hunt. but, the chaos DE can work great in PvP.
See 1. I have been talking about it all the time. We are not discussing just about PvP or just about PvE. The problem is magic DE good in PvP while bad in PvE while might DE good in hunts and not so good in PvP bcause admins think there is magic built for that.
it seems like the one who play DE doesnt knew its own strength and weakness. i would agree if you talk on low total HP on recruitment if you talk on recruiting max shrew (since more DE do that). you still have some meat like mino and hydra.
Yes there is meat but just some. Wizzy has some meat and lot of rocks with darn good def with darn good spells with darn good mini artifacts.
even without chain cast, chaos DE still can deliver fancy spell dmg. this had been proved since the last blindfold battle.
That fancy dmg is dust compared to HP of neutral creatures you need to kill to get close to HG records. I never questioned strength of magic DE in PvP but is worried about1 built to suit on most battle without keep changing stats, waste gold on artifacts and potion.
Ok.Forget all this. Magic DE is great. Then why was cost of offense talent increased? Since magic DE is strong, cost of offense talent or darkness talent should be brought down to 7 to balance might built in PvP. | Notice that
+8 attack = +40% dmg
= 4x10 enchantment on your weapon | @ 26
With a normal hunt, wizards can take easty sure. But LWM, we get alot of natural creepis, and attk power make all diference at this...
And at homm, you can fight with the army count you want, and have anouther good point, you can have more than 10 SP in 7 minutes... Because you level so fast...
Here we need fight agains 8x more enemys, with a low army, and without a good SP to kill enemeys, so Sure wizards need this bonus...
They can't do anything without this bonus...
About DE, they have Shews, and can be might, use your critividy and make your best way to envolve...
DE are awalys the best faction magic in this game. | @ Robai
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the % increase in damage per every +1 to the attack stat also depend on the defense of the targeted unit? If so, then your calculation that each stat in attack equals 5% extra damage isn't all that accurate. |
Here we need fight agains 8x more enemys, with a low army, and without a good SP to kill enemeys, so Sure wizards need this bonus...
Hi Shacon , what you said is true.What about magic DE.They too needs bonus damage against neutrals they also don't have huge no. of troops or high FSP.
They can't do anything without this bonus...
About DE, they have Shews, and can be might, use your critividy and make your best way to envolve...
DE are awalys the best faction magic in this game.
You first advice to take might and then say magic DE is the best mage . This is the wrong concept many take. Might DE good in hunts and magic DE good in PvP. So DE are overpowered. The problem is portion of oblivion and artifacts are not free for DE to change from might to magic and back frequently. Take one built either magic or maight, and compare how good it is over all. Kindly don't consider one built for one type of battle and an entirely different built for another type.
Notice that
+8 attack = +40% dmg
= 4x10 enchantment on your weapon
That is when attk=def before +8 is added.As attk-def increases 4*10 enchant gives more dmg. As it decreases, 4*10 enchants give less dmg.
Sorry , I didn't get your point through this , in this forum. | I said DE is the best faction to pvp, elemetal call + piersing magic.
Wizards have alot of slow units, the army of wizards is made to work with hero magic with alot of SP and titans
you can't get both at start, and also can't get titan, só don't will work good at hunters, this bonus is essential.
DE have posioners, very good hp, moderate dmg, good walker, good initiative, dmg per turn (posion)
Rogues or Shews, i need mention they are great?
Minotaur, unit to get a survivor, better to pvp than to hunter, but still is a option, to max minos and take less hydras or something you wanna try...
Lizards, faster unit, with initiative and walk, and charge ingore enmy defense
Hydra... ins't much userfull to hunter... is a survinving unit..
witch... Range unit, thats can help at pvp and hunt a bit...
Black dragons, oh man the best unit of the game.
Why DE's don't need magic bonus? Because have a very faster army, and a ofensive army, they can clean any area...
Also can choce might to kill enemys at hunt... for that DE's don't need magic bonus, good army ofensive and faster + might build = Can do hunter.
Wizards can't do might build, if you wanna try, go ahead. :) | I never questioned inefficiency of might built in hunts did I? Problem with might built is it is not so effective in PvP. Even though individually DE troops are very powerful, combined they have a weakness- lack of shooters. In PvP, it all comes to shrews to take out enemy shooters and other major stacks who can get first strike on lizzy.
About magic DE. In PvP , hero can play as a powerful shooter and mino + hydra can survive well but not as good in survival as wizzy troops.For that there is elemental call.Ok. But in hunts, DE doesn't have any bonus damage against neutrals . Wizzy has bonus damage to take care of extra HP. What does MAGIC DE has? Only units not as good in survival and elemental call which has very poor damage per mana. DON'T SAY there is might built for hunts bcause we are talking about magic DE here and PORTION OR OBLIVION AND ARTIFACTS ARE NOT FREE FOR DE TO CHANGE FREQUENTLY FROM MAGIC TO MIGHT AND REVERSE . I hope I made myself clear. | Read again, the second paragraph of your post is totally baseless of my post, I was talking about Necro faction, and you DE faction.
I didn't see this post. I knew you meant about necro. I said the same reason you said about lack of magic necro, applies to DE also. | Obviously you still dont get it.
Lets say they give magic DE bonus in PvE, as much as Wizard, then what ? You will whine up that you dont get 'Free' raise dead like Necormancers ? 'Bonus' troops like Knights and why not 'Magic Resist like Barbarians.
It is balanced, obviously you dont get it, but its ok, go for an Hybrid if you want both might and magic, I do that plenty of time with my Necro build. Thanks to Erudition, it serves well. | Lets say they give magic DE bonus in PvE, as much as Wizard, then what ? You will whine up that you dont get 'Free' raise dead like Necormancers ? 'Bonus' troops like Knights and why not 'Magic Resist like Barbarians.
How can you be so sure that I would whine for you dont get 'Free' raise dead like Necormancers ? 'Bonus' troops like Knights and why not 'Magic Resist like Barbarians. mate? :)
It is balanced, obviously you dont get it, but its ok, go for an Hybrid if you want both might and magic, I do that plenty of time with my Necro build. Thanks to Erudition, it serves well.
I was hybrid in lvl5 , lvl8 and now. Hydrid didn't work well in hunts. I wasted good amt of PoO to test hybrid. I made my main hunting records with almost/full might built. Now don't say that there is no built which is good against everything. I am not asking for a built that is best in hunts + 90% chance of victory over other factions. I am complaining about a built which is good in hunts + has as many strenght against factions as there are weakeness factions in PvP.Every other faction has such a built. Wizzys magic built is very good wizard built for hunts and very good in PvP. | for SwitchBlad3:
Yes, +1 attack is not always +5% damage, but it is very often case in this game, because usually your hero wears artifacts, giving attack bonus.
By the way, if you increase attack a lot then the last attack point will always give you +5% damage since then it will be A>D.
The formula is this:
If A>D then multiply damage by [1 + 0.05*(A-D)].
If A<D then divide damage by [1 + 0.05*(D-A)].
If A>D then +1 attack = +5% damage.
If A<D then +1 attack is not +5% damage, but it is similar.
The big question is whether factor 1/[1 + 0.05*(D-A)] is similar to factor [1 - 0.05*(D-A)]?
Let's do some Math:
x = 0.05*(D-A)
1/(1+x) = 1 - x + x^2 - x^3 + ..., when |x|<1
If x is small then approximately indeed
1/(1+x) = 1 - x
because then x^2, x^3, ... are much smaller than x and can be ignored.
Examples (when D>A):
If D-A = 1 then
x = 0.05*(D-A) = 0.05
1/(1+x) = 1/(1+0.05) = 0.95238
1-x = 0.95
If we increase attack by 1 then D-A = 0 and
x = 0.05*(D-A) = 0
1/(1+x) = 1/(1+0) = 1 (i.e. increased by 1-0.95238 = 0.04762)
1-x = 1-0 = 1 (increased by 0.05)
If D-A = 5 then
x = 0.05*(D-A) = 0.25
1/(1+x) = 1/(1+0.25) = 0.8
1-x = 1-0.25 = 0.75
If we increase attack by 1 then D-A = 4 and
x = 0.05*(D-A) = 0.2
1/(1+x) = 1/(1+0.2) = 0.83333 (i.e. increased by 0.83333-0.8 = 0.03333)
1-x = 1-0.2 = 0.8 (increased by 0.05)
If D-A = 10 then
x = 0.05*(D-A) = 0.5
1/(1+x) = 1/(1+0.5) = 0.66667
1-x = 1-0.5 = 0.5
If we increase attack by 1 then D-A = 9 and
x = 0.05*(D-A) = 0.45
1/(1+x) = 1/(1+0.45) = 0.68966 (i.e. increased by 0.68966-0.66667 = 0.02299)
1-x = 1-0.45 = 0.55 (increased by 0.05) | Oh, I forgot about PvP part of this game :)
(since it doesn't interest me)
Yes, in PvP it's not rare case when D>A and thus +1 attack is often not +5% damage. | vishnus
Sorry , I didn't get your point through this , in this forum.
My point was that the faction level is very important because each attack point gives huge damage bonus, which costs a lot using enchantments.
For example, the difference between F10 and F5 is only +5% damage, but players enchant F10 anyway, because they want that +5% damage since it makes a difference in battle.
What is the price?
Ok, let's calculate:
30-9 = 21
So, the difference between F10 and F5 is
21 Fire crystals + 21 Tiger`s claws
Taking a look at the market prices now:
21*2130 + 21*4200 = 132930
So, +5% fire damage costs about 132930 gold now (moreover, it is not a permanent bonus), while +1 attack often gives a similar effect.
I think now my point is clear. | | Yes, I got it Robai. I didn't understand what you meant by it when were were discussing about talent. You meant that for why FSP lvl is important. | So vishnus, you think all other factions has a Build that can do all ?
HG, MG, PVP, and Tournments ?
Wake up, as Necromancer, I can't do that, I still need to switch talent (Erudition) mostly to get the point needed in Knowledge for Phantoms (HG) or more attack (MG) or defense (Survival Tournment)...so find a way to do it as well, check in the DE Thread. |
This topic is long since last update and considered obsolete for further discussions.
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