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| Author | fsp/xp |
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Hello! I also want to make a lot more fsp than xp. But I don't know how could I. People told me to make hunts, but I receive many times 400-500 xp and just 0.5 fsp. I saw you said that you will no longer assist because it gives you xp. But what doesn't? I see you're very close to level 7. It means you're not gonna fight anymore, because you don't want xp? Or you can battle for a lot less xp? If yes, could you please tell me the best way of a good fsp/xp ratio? Thanks!
Regards,
TBI
Of course there is the best way to have a good fsp/xp ratio, but you won't like it:
LOSE battles (almost win, but lose). :)
Yes, it is still the best way to get high fsp/xp ratio.
After this upgrade
https://www.lordswm.com/forum_messages.php?tid=1842732
no other good way left to get high fsp/xp ratio, i.e. losing battles is the best way to keep high fsp/xp ratio.
a) Duels and group battles:
The victorious party receives 130% the normal faction skill points and still the normal amount of experience, the defeated party receives 30% of experience and 70% of skill points earned through fight.
if you win: 130/100 = 1.3 fsp/xp ratio (of ratio before upgrade)
if you lose: 70/30 = 2.33 fsp/xp ratio (of ratio before upgrade)
Example:
https://www.lordswm.com/warlog.php?warid=478607053
Winner: 1.9 fsp + 5674 xp
Loser: 0.51 fsp + 937 xp
fsp/xp ratio (now):
Winner: 1.9/5674 = 0.000334
Loser: 0.51/937 = 0.000544
fsp/xp ratio (an equivalent before upgrade):
Winner: (1.9/1.3)/(5674/1) = 0.000257
Loser: (0.51/0.7)/(937/0.3) = 0.000233
Conclusion:
Losing gives 0.000544/0.000334 = 1.6 times better fsp/xp ratio than winning in PvP battles.
b) Every One For Oneself and Blindfold battles:
The first Lord out gets 30% experience, 50% skill; second one - 40% exp, 80% skill; last but one - 50% exp, 120% skill; last man standing gets 100% exp and 150% skill points earned through fight.
if you win vs all: 150/100 = 1.5 fsp/xp ratio (of ratio before upgrade)
if you almost win vs all: 120/50 = 2.4 fsp/xp ratio (of ratio before upgrade)
if you almost lose vs all: 80/40 = 2.0 fsp/xp ratio (of ratio before upgrade)
if you lose vs all: 50/30 = 1.66 fsp/xp ratio (of ratio before upgrade)
Conclusion:
Always amost win (but lose) "Every One For Oneself" and "Blindfold" battles - then you will get the best fsp/xp ratio.
c) Battles against AI:
Victory gains have not changed. Defeats grant 30% of experience earned, while the skill gained can be calculated by the following formula: Skill = ([earned exp])/([character lvl]*1000), never bigger than 0.5. For instance, a Lord of combat level 10 would have to earn 5000 exp in order to gain 0.5 skill, but, given his or her defeat, will only gain 1500 exp and 0.5 skill points. This measure has been taken to limit players that intentionally lose AI combats in pursuit of skill points.
Notations:
fsp = faction skill points
CL = combat level
xp = earned exp
A = xp/(CL*1000)
By the rule:
fsp = min(A,0.5)
if you win:
1/(CL*1000) fsp/xp ratio if A < 0.5
0.5/xp fsp/xp ratio if A >= 0.5
if you lose:
you get about 100/30 = 3.33 times bigger fsp/xp ratio than in case of winning (it depends on how much you've killed).
Examples:
1) if you've killed not too much (i.e. A<=0.5) and your level is 1 then
if you win: 1/(1*1000) = 0.0001 fsp/xp ratio
if you lose: 1/(0.3*1*1000) = 0.0033 fsp/xp ratio
2) if you've killed not too much (i.e. A<=0.5) and your level is 13 then
if you win: 1/(13*1000) = 0.00007692 fsp/xp ratio
if you lose: 1/(0.3*13*1000) = 0.00025641 fsp/xp ratio (see link below)
The best possible fsp/xp ratio you can get against AI is this
kill so much monsters that your fsp would be 0.5 and then lose.
It means that never kill too many monsters, keep it so that xp <= 500*CL.
For getting more fsp from one battle you should kill so much monsters that xp >= 500*CL (and you must lose, of course)
So, the opti | | If you want to earn a lot of sp,(I suppose you dont want to fight long and difficult group battles and blindfold battles to LOSE) I would suggest thieving caravans with minimum arts. On my level I still have a ratio about 0.5 sp + 500-1000 exp for losing, and 1 sp + 1500-2500 exp for winning. And dont forget about the cash flow from thief arts and invitations later. | | And by about I mean 0.40 - 0.65 mostly, depends on how large the caravan is and how much you can kill before you lose..the necromancer caravans seem to be the best because they are slow and you manage to kill something even when you are overwhelmed.. | Part 2:
So, the optimal solution is this:
kill so much monsters that xp = 500*CL and then lose the battle.
I found a battle where equality xp = 500*CL holds:
https://www.lordswm.com/warlog.php?warid=478608996
She got 1950 xp, but it is 30% of actual xp (because she lost), which is 1950/0.3 = 6500.
And 500*CL = 500*13 = 6500.
Such amazingly optimal (because A=0.5) gives this fsp/xp ratio:
0.5/1950 = 0.00025641
(this is the best fsp/xp ratio, which can get 13th level player in hunts)
Conclusions for hunts:
- higher level players get less fsp/xp ratio than lower lever players
- losing always gives you about 3 times higher fsp/xp ratio than winning
d) Battles against caravans:
The amount of experience gained in case of victory is doubled due to presence of the enemy character. In case of defeat, the amount of experience the Lord gains is calculated as in general Battles against AI.
It means this: if you lose you get TWICE better fsp/xp ratio than you win!
BTW, the best fsp/xp ratio has the best loser in this game:
https://www.lordswm.com/pl_info.php?id=4385827 | | Assuming that you're right, that the best way to gain skill points is by losing, then it still wouldn't matter. You don't gain guild points by losing so winners still come out ahead. :P | | [Post deleted by moderator Shebali // >.<] | | fsp/xp thing is so overated ... | | I think the best way is to kill merc quest monsters; but turn in the merc quest late. this way it counts as a win for the battle, but a loss as a merc quest, which means you can go back and do this battle over and over again. | fsp/xp thing is so overated ...
Same feeling. It doesn't deserve the effort. | I think the best way is to kill merc quest monsters; but turn in the merc quest late. this way it counts as a win for the battle, but a loss as a merc quest, which means you can go back and do this battle over and over again.
that's the smartest thing I've ever heard | for Pantheon:
this way it counts as a win for the battle, but a loss as a merc quest
What do you mean?
Do you mean this:
kill easy monsnters in merc quest and do not finish the quest by waiting some time?
Why it will be the same monsters again? How? |
Why it will be the same monsters again? How?
because u failed that quest | Why it will be the same monsters again? How?
Quest is considered lost, so next time you get it it will be of same difficulty, not harder. A way both slow and sure to get 0.5 fsp for as little as 150-300 xp | for Shebali:
Thx for explanation.
Then I agree with Pantheon that killing easy quest monsters and not finishing the quest is the best way to improve fsp/xp ratio.
But losing even those battles should give about 3 times better fsp/xp ratio.
Examples:
1) Owen[8] vs Unicorns-raid {0}:
https://www.lordswm.com/warlog.php?warid=478667562
xp = 252
fsp = 0.5
fsp/xp = 0.5/252 = 0.00198
He won the battle and he got enough xp to get 0.5 fsp, but if he would lose (but almost win) then he should get even less xp about 3 times, i.e. it would be something like this:
xp = 250*0.3= 75
fsp = 0.49
fsp/xp = 0.49/75 = 0.00653
2) evilguise[5] vs Skeletons-raid {0}
https://www.lordswm.com/warlog.php?warid=478667732
xp = 321
fsp = 0.5
fsp/xp = 0.5/321 = 0.00155 (battle won)
fsp/xp = 0.49/(320*0.3) = 0.00510 (if battle would be almost won)
3)GhostBear[6] vs Army of dark elves
https://www.lordswm.com/warlog.php?warid=478667759
xp = 169
fsp = 0.5
fsp/xp = 0.5/169 = 0.00295 (battle won)
fsp/xp = 0.49/(168*0.3) = 0.00972 (if battle would be almost won)
4) EvilCockney[10] vs Lizard cavalry-monster {0}
https://www.lordswm.com/warlog.php?warid=478667731
xp = 76
fsp = 0.5
fsp/xp = 0.5/76 = 0.00657 (battle won)
fsp/xp = 0.5/(76*0.3) = 0.02192 (in losing case, but there was only one monster, so this is impossible case, i.e. you can't get 0.49 fsp here, only 0 or 0.5)
So, the best way to improve fsp/xp ratio:
- always kill single quest monsters {0} and never complete quests
- always almost win vs other quests monsters {0} | It seems that my formula in battles against AI is wrong in the case of winning (because you always get 0.5 fsp if you win against AI). It means that there is a hope that winning against AI isn't that bad after all (winning is still bad in other cases: Duels, Group battles, Every One For Oneself battles, Blindfolds, Caravans).
Let's correct it.
xp = actual combat experience, which is added after combat (this is what you see after battle)
exp = earned combat experience (it depends on how many and what type of monsters you've killed)
I don't know how exp is calculated (anybody knows?), but I know that it also depends on your combat level and artifacts (on higher CL you get less exp killing the same monsters, with more artifacts you get more exp).
A = exp/(CL*1000)
By the rule:
xp = exp (if you win)
xp = 0.3*exp (if you lose)
fsp = 0.5 (if you win)
fsp = min(A,0.5) (if you lose)
So,
If you win:
fsp/xp = 0.5/exp
If you lose:
fsp/xp = min(A,0.5)/(0.3*exp)
If you kill weak monsters then it will be A < 0.5, so losing gives you
fsp/xp = A/(0.3*exp) = 1/(0.3*CL*1000)
while winning gives you 0.5/exp.
So, the only question is when 1/(0.3*CL*1000) > 0.5/exp, i.e. when losing is better than winning (in terms of fsp/xp)?
Let's look at this example:
TBI[5] vs Infected zombies (125)
https://www.lordswm.com/warlog.php?warid=478662333
He killed 122 of 125 Infected zombies.
xp = 84
fsp = 0.06
fsp/xp = 0.06/84 = 0.00071
This is actually approximation, because after battle you see fsp 0.06, which is a rounded number (but from this we can say that a real fsp is between 0.05 and 0.07).
The real fsp/xp ratio is this:
1/(0.3*CL*1000) = 1/(0.3*5*1000) = 0.00066
And this is indeed between 0.05/84 = 0.00059 and 0.07/84 = 0.00083, so my calculations are correct.
Let's compare winning case:
TBI[5] vs Infected zombies (100)
https://www.lordswm.com/warlog.php?warid=478586165
xp = 289
fsp = 0.44 (not 0.5 only because he damaged himself)
fsp/xp = 0.44/289 = 0.00152
So, winning against 100 Infected zombies was better than "almost winning" against 125 Infected zombies, because 0.00152 > 0.00066
Conclusion:
It seems that intentionally losing vs weak monsters isn't a good idea (winning gives better fsp/xp ratio here).
Now let's analyze more things.
100 Infected zombies gave this:
xp = 289 (in case of winning)
It means that exp = 289.
If the amount of monsters you kill is proportional to the exp you get then 125 Infected zombies should give this:
exp = 289*(125/100) = 361.25
xp = 0.3*361.25 = 108.375 (if you lose)
But this is not true, because we had this:
xp = 84
As I sad before, I don't exactly how exp is calculated (he had different artifacts in those two battles, but I don't know how it influence exp).
If I knew I would tell exactly when it is worth lose battles vs AI, but sometimes it is worth to lose battles against AI - just look at the example in the official announcement:
https://www.lordswm.com/forum_messages.php?tid=1842732
For instance, a Lord of combat level 10 would have to earn 5000 exp in order to gain 0.5 skill, but, given his or her defeat, will only gain 1500 exp and 0.5 skill points. | fsp/xp thing is so overated ...
Same feeling. It doesn't deserve the effort
why would u even bother? this game is about fun not losing endlessly to get racial skill bonuses, dont worry about this it is a waste of time, if u want such a great advantage by enchantments or just improve tactics, dont lose endlessly
imo It doesn't deserve the effort | | Eap, bad ratio and still better way to be strong is losing. Merc quest win and dont finish - 2 hours waiting till fail, 40 mins after it and some time to get another good quest. Mazochist's method ) I don't want do it =) | | you should get a life :) common, fsp is not so important do you play only for "to keep up to ideal status"? As for myself I play for fun and exp because exp grants future benefits (new upgrades and creatures + arts) :) you just should look up for your labourer skill to be able catch up the improvements :) | Actually you are wrong.
Concerning my battle.
xp = 252
fsp = 0.5
fsp/xp = 0.5/252 = 0.00198
He won the battle and he got enough xp to get 0.5 fsp, but if he would lose (but almost win) then he should get even less xp about 3 times, i.e. it would be something like this:
xp = 250*0.3= 75
fsp = 0.49 - no! I should have 250/(8*1000) skill points = 0.03 sp
So fsp/xp = 0.03/75 = 0.0004
Your mistake is that winner has 0.5 for sure - loser can get 0.5 only when he meets the experience requirements. | | Oh, yes! That's why I took so less xp when I lost.. now I have the answer. Anyway, I thank Robai for his answer to my question.. And with this last reply, I understand better. ( I took 84 xp and 0.06 fsp that is a so little fsp/xp! |
This topic is long since last update and considered obsolete for further discussions.
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