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| Author | Initiative |
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Hi all,
I have read the sticky regarding Initiative and the "race track and the laps" analogy but I still don't quite understand how initiative is calculaled.
Ok, as you people already knows, Knights are ULTRA s-l-o-w by nature, and I'm thinking of arming myself with LOADS of initiative arts (thus sacrificing some defense/attack in the process). But such arts are very expensive and I wanna make sure it actually makes a difference before plunging into buying them.
Ok, lemme ask my Q by giving an example:
1) My hero has basic Initiative +1% and my Bowmen: 9. An Elf has basic Initiative +3% and Elven Bowmen: 10.
So even if i wear arts from head to toe and get my Initiative increased by +10%, my Hero and troops like Bowmen (initiative probably at 10.3) will STILL be MUCH slower than a Elven Bowmen (who even WITHOUT any arts already has 11). Then, what's the point for anyone to arm (and spent loads of gold) with initiative arts, when the percentage increase is only a mere 1-5% ?? (which, in Maths terms, is nothing). So what's the point?
2) Also, in 2 recent battles, the elves troops I fought all went TWICE at the start before my Swordsmen and Bowmen even went once (!?). Now looking at the stats of their troops, their initiative is only about 10-15% more than me, not DOUBLED. Even if they wear arts and the Hero cast spells/magic, their troops' initiative are still not doubled mine, so why do all their troops get to go twice before my Bowmen even get to go 1 turn?
Thanks in advance. :)
S-l-o-w Knight | | To answer 2) after a few turns the ones with higher initiative would double the ones with quit low initiative. Like in hunts, rouges get 2 turns even though they are only a few initiative more than the neutral creature. | 1) Well, if you don't wear those arts, your bowmen will be stuck at Init 9 and will only have 9 turns for every 11 turns of the Elven bow. With arts you will have 10 turns. And you will have better odds of defeating a fellow knight if he doesn't have init arts.
2) a) Morale after their first hit?
b) If their init is high enough, they will have that number of turns in the space that you have your 6 or 9 turns., meaning at one point, they would get to go twice for your one turn. It just happens to be the first turn in your battles.
Example: Elven Bow init 11, Knight Bow Init 9
Thus you have 9 turns: KKKKKKKKK
But then He has 11 turns: EEEEEEEEEEE
Evenly spaced, there will be some point where he goes twice to your one action
KEKEKeeKEKEKeeKEKEKE
It just so happens that the game placed one of the extra turns in front those battles (possiblity due to the randomisation of starting initiative) | for Takesister:
Man, that suxx. All my troops (except for my swordsmen) were wiped out even before I could reach their shooters (and an Elf have TONS of shooters, WITH magic). haha.. Not even a close (or fair) fight when the "randomness" of the program let their Elven Bowmen and Druids have 2 turns each before my Bowmen even have time to pick their nose! hahahaha..
So, only 1 part of my Q left to answer -
So according to Takesister's example, if I were to wear an art (eg: Shoes of aspiration [SoI], which cost about 8k-10k), I remembered the stats said (I looked at someone else stats) a Bowmen is now at 9.4. That would mean my Bowmen will have 9.4 turns compared to a NO arts Elven bowmen of 11 turns. So with no SoI, I get 9 turns, spending 8-10k to get SoA gets me 9.4 (??0 turns. Isn't 9 and 9.4 turns... the same ??
Since spending 10k-20k gold will only increase my troops' initiative by a measly 2-3% (4-5/100% seems like nothing!), we knights might as well just completely forget about wearing any initiative arts and concentrate on attack/defense arts, Yes? ....or no?
??Confused Knight??
PS: I hope whoever is reading this makes sense and know what I'm asking. haha.. :p | Hmm.. Just thought about it and I know a simplified way of asking -
Since wearing an art only increase a troop's initiative by 1 PERCENT and Not 1 (like adding a parameter point to Initiative),like make Bowmen's initiative increase from 9 to 10, then what good can that measly 1% do?
There, short and aweet. :p | | I'm telling you, as a knight it doesn't means that you can beat any faction ( you gave the elf example ), but you can try other faction which you are very good against. And to be on topic, I think some more morale is better than lots of initiative ( every point increases something like +0.1 ). Use your bows vs elven and with your griff attack the druids or fk around the elvens. And easly come with your swords ( It takes 3 turns to arrive, am I right? ). Maybe when your griffs are close to the elvens they will attack your griffs, but you should profit by attacking with bowmens.. If this doesn't work, they forget about fighting elves :) | The 1% initiative give you 10% chance to shoot first against other knights.
Against elves, %1 barely does any thing. | initiative is most important for elves, DE and demon
barb and necro can also benefit
knight and wizard not too much
go for defense, air magic protection (when you get to level 6), and MORAL. bursts can make your swords play much more often. and it will be a lot easier to defeat elves on next levels, so don't worry :)
all in all, knight is and will remain dependent on luck and morale more than any other faction - seems to me, at least
so, good luck! :D | Initiative mostly helps to be faster than units with equal base initiative, the best you can hope for is beating units that has one more base initiative, but you need a rather big bonus for that.
If you don't really care about who goes first and just want more turns morale is the better and cheaper way to go. | I think I can answer your question. Your instinct that these meager initiative increases are not worth the price is correct, mathmatically speaking. The only time they make a huge difference is when you fight someone from the same faction, where your and his troops have approximately the same initiative. In that case, if you have slightly better initiative, your troops would likely act before his, and believe me, acting first is huge. You know, for example, if your bowmen shoots his bowmen before his shoot back, you'd likely win the battle, all else being equal.
If you're talking about long, 9-10+ turn battles, then yes, Morale is better. Each point in morale on average increases your iniative by 5%; it's just more random than a fixed initiative increase. | Ok, I got it.
Thanks to all, your answers just confirm what I thought about initiative arts. Not worth poo. hahaha..
Moral... here IIIIIIIII come. :p
Thanks again, all. :) | | closed by Shebali (2009-05-14 03:13:43) |
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