Forums-->Complaints and applications - Finance and others-->
| Author | limstudotcom |
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lots of unclear transfers, clan taxes, entree fees, donations (were those for clan or him?) of over months never reach the clan balance, i understand he is the clan smith, but i notice members were paying full repair cost on his starting repairs
10-24-08 19:31: Transferred 30000 gold to the #153 clan account
first large deposit to the clan, after some thousands earlier, and those to cover invitation cost earlier, but those money was also withdrawn:
10-30-08 17:34: Withdrawn 16000 gold from the #153 clan account
10-30-08 21:51: Withdrawn 10500 gold from the #153 clan account
10-30-08 23:33: Withdrawn 5500 gold from the #153 clan account
11-14-08 01:25: Received 42230 Gold from Frios : fees plus donation
not sure what kind of fee, were those intended for the clan? didnt reach clan balance, no repair after this transfer, and i believe previous repairs and the later were fully paid
on about 12-10-08, money received for clan started being deposited into the clan balance, but there were transfers back and forth between him and the clan balance, so they are vague
(with some smaller transfer in between)
12-26-08 07:56: Transferred 47000 gold to the #153 clan account
12-25-08 06:45: Withdrawn 6000 gold from the #153 clan account
12-23-08 23:59: Withdrawn 20000 gold from the #153 clan account
12-23-08 23:39: Withdrawn 4500 gold from the #153 clan account
12-23-08 08:11: Withdrawn 25000 gold from the #153 clan account
12-23-08 08:10: Transferred 50000 gold to the #153 clan account
12-23-08 08:10: Transferred 30000 gold to the #153 clan account
12-23-08 08:10: Transferred 19000 gold to the #153 clan account
12-23-08 08:07: Transferred 1500 gold to the #153 clan account
to conclude the clan balance at that time, but were those taxes/fees for clan earlier deposited, im unsure as there were lots of those transfers over months:
12-26-08 17:58: MrHellRaiser has deposited 140000 gold to the clan account.
12-26-08 16:47: Clan leadership handed over by limustudotcom to MrHellRaiser.
12-26-08 09:11: MrHellRaiser has withdrawn 140000 gold from the clan account.
then there were transfers of those money back and forth among limstudotcom, hell and the clan
and also he was still receiving full repair cost from the members | after that, there seems to be lesser transfers of fee/tax, with a little deposit to clan here and there (but not right after payments from members)
until:
01-02-09 02:54: Withdrawn 30000 gold from the #153 clan account
01-03-09 01:56: Withdrawn 15000 gold from the #153 clan account
01-03-09 01:30: Withdrawn 15000 gold from the #153 clan account
01-03-09 03:45: Withdrawn 5000 gold from the #153 clan account
01-03-09 16:04: Withdrawn 15000 gold from the #153 clan account
01-03-09 17:17: Withdrawn 5000 gold from the #153 clan account
01-03-09 18:01: Withdrawn 3000 gold from the #153 clan account
01-03-09 18:00: Withdrawn 5000 gold from the #153 clan account
01-03-09 18:16: Withdrawn 2000 gold from the #153 clan account
then some payment from members did not reach clan again, money withdrawn still not getting deposited back to the clan for over a week
then on 01-11-09, he received clan taxes again, but only part of those money were deposited to the clan at that time (as always)
until:
01-14-09 07:34: Withdrawn 302 gold from the #153 clan account
01-14-09 07:34: Transferred 651 gold to the #153 clan account
01-14-09 07:18: Transferred 13651 gold to the #153 clan account
01-14-09 06:32: Transferred 40000 gold to the #153 clan account
01-14-09 06:05: Transferred 4000 gold to the #153 clan account
so only about half of those money withdrawn on 01-02 and 01-03 were deposited
and then:
01-26-09 00:36: Transferred 5400 gold to the #153 clan account
01-24-09 23:38: Withdrawn 15000 gold from the #153 clan account
01-22-09 07:32: Withdrawn 20000 gold from the #153 clan account
01-22-09 02:35: Withdrawn 11000 gold from the #153 clan account
01-20-09 16:18: Withdrawn 12000 gold from the #153 clan account
i excluded lots of hundreds gold transfers, which he also withdrawn those, and deposit part back again, unclear
after that, some members started not paying full repair cost already | until:
02-04-09 02:32: Castle modified. Construction added: Magic Guild level 3.
02-04-09 02:15: Castle modified. Construction added: Magic Guild level 2.
02-04-09 02:14: Castle modified. Construction added: Apparition tower.
02-04-09 02:01: Withdrawn 18888 gold from the #153 clan account
these gold never get back to the clan
of course, here i also excluded the transfers of donation that did reach the clan
then another example of clan tax that did not reach the clan:
04-03-09 13:50: Received 10000 Gold from auror : fees for 2 months
then 250k was withdrawn from clan to purchase a TGI, but its unclear wheter the profit went to him or the clan, as he is renting his own TGIs as well, and he keeps those gold from sold thief art
he keeps 8k:
04-20-09 07:32: Transferred 8000 gold to the #153 clan account
04-20-09 07:28: Sold item: "Thief mask" [60/60] for 16000 gold to bedmouse as lot #469199. Commission: 160
55k:
04-20-09 13:42: Transferred 10000 gold to the #153 clan account
04-20-09 13:03: Sold item: "Thief amulet" [60/60] for 65000 gold to Set_Sveta as lot #469201. Commission: 650
and then more donations that reach the clan - expecially those for battle clan share, did reach the clan so i excluded those
also deposits from a member as saving, excluded
04-21-09 16:56: Withdrawn 15000 gold from the #153 clan account
04-21-09 16:56: Transferred 15000 Gold to darkmathijs : 15k loan, pay back 4 weeks or less from clan #153
but when the money is returned, it did not reach the clan
04-26-09 09:15: Received 15000 Gold from darkmathijs : borrowed money
but there were unknown transfers to the clan earlier (might be for the sale of amulet)
04-23-09 01:48: Transferred 14000 gold to the #153 clan account
04-23-09 01:33: Transferred 11000 gold to the #153 clan account | stopped at page 66, pretty much all recent donations did go to the clan balance, and of course, i only glanced through page by page from the first page, so i might miss a few details here and there, but i believe those bigger and vague transfers are covered
others:
Nordal, (over 30%) gift
https://www.lordswm.com/pl_transfers.php?id=4414133
Golanchik, suspected of paying limstudotcom for diamond upgrade
https://www.lordswm.com/pl_transfers.php?id=4423712&page=3
12-13-08 10:04: Castle modified. Construction added: Arena of Keepers.
12-13-08 09:49: Transferred 70000 Gold to limustudotcom : The money for Diamonds UpGrade | LoL
Have fun looking through my transfer logs. The admins are free to look at hard copies at the time of exchange to make sure all things are in order.
Briefly I'll mention a few things since you are pulling together oddly shaped conspiracies.
1. The clan sets up a purpose once I assumed leadership, early on, to build up the skills of the repair smith (which was me at the time) and the weapon enchanter (MrHellraiser) since these 2 are essential to a clan's survival. So most taxes are used exclusively for repairs and/or element rebates. If you read transfers way down the road some may even say "fees for clan smith" on them instead of "Clan tax." Once the repair smith hit a certain level (I don't even remember it) clan money was used for element rebate programs for mates to get their goodies enchanted (a big push was in March if I recall). I'm surprised you didn't pull any of those into this conversation either. So all I did was battle, battle, battle, with inexpensive arts to keep the smith fires going and the clan subsidized those repairs. Some clans pay their smith a set salary, in this case, it was a "as funds allow, and time allows, basis" until our clan page goals were reached--especially because we were a new clan with hardly any members. Once they were realized, all taxes ceased entirely as they were no longer needed. I am a man of my word: mission accomplished.
2. The leadership + clan balance was transferred to MrHellraiser because of this incident:
https://www.lordswm.com/forum_messages.php?tid=1843723
SO I figured if I was banned for my actions, at least the clan would keep going, and you cannot transfer leadership to anyone unless clan balance is at 0.
This answers your inquiry about the diamonds on Golanchik.
3. Clan purchased TGIs were sold at a higher price in market, and most profit was deposited straight into treasury. Keep on looking, you'll find it, eventually? Don't be lazy if you are going to point fingers.
4. I managed the TGI and did share many profits with clan. Even now I manage 2 TGIs at a set gold exchange rate that are not mine. There are clans set up that do this, I am just 1 person that does this for 2 friends. Managing TGIs is annoying, and stressful.
5. I asked Admins (I don't have link, feel free to find it) in Complaints and Applications section to fully audit my transfer logs, to compare against hard real time logs of the past, to ensure that the 30% rule was not in violation for any of our clan transfers. Since the rules make no statement of a 30% rule in particular against clans, I assumed there was no restriction. But since some raised the point that the admins aren't English speakers and probably meant to include clans, I started to enforce the 30% rule even with all BC donations just to be on the safe side.
I have nothing to hide, and am more than willing to return any clan monies that we acquired that the admins feel are in violation of the 30% rule.
On a last note, everything prior to 12-13 had already been thoroughly combed by the admins, since I was investigated on that diamond incident to my understanding.
Cheers,
LS | 1. and i noticed you were receiving full repair cost from the start, and also the taxes
2. i didnt say it was wrong
5. and that thread, to my knowledge was buried and not processed yet
https://www.lordswm.com/pl_transfers.php?id=4414133
and this shows otherwise, he has no gold left, and nothing was done
anyway, only reason i continued till page 66 was because it WAS indeed fun, then i stopped because everything seems normal | Oh yea one last thing...a lot of things slip past me, I live a busy life, which was another reason for the VOLUNTARY audit I requested from the admins months ago.
That loan from Dark, was probably one of them. When I wrote him to collect, I bet he told me he already sent me the money, and a few days later what a coincidence a perfect match:
04-27-09 16:06: Transferred 15000 gold to the #153 clan account
In any case, bring out more questions/allegations, but please don't be so sloppy. If you are going to accuse someone, at least make sure you are careful and thorough.
Cheers,
LS | "5. and that thread, to my knowledge was buried and not processed yet"
The much missed Arctic was pretty much the 'face' of the Admins...yeap...processed and finished. Glad to of caught you up on that, at least you learned something from this investigation :) | As for Nordal, thanks for bringing that to my attention.
I'll gladly keep the game alotted 30% and return the rest to him.
If you find any others, do not hesitate to write me again--oh wait, you won't. Since I keep stiff 30% rules in effect for all transactions: clan or personal.
Cheers,
LS | | 08-01-09 15:56: Transferred 46883 Gold to Nordal : Gifts should not exceed 30% | | are you sure? how can he missed the transfer from nordal from the first few pages then? and of course, i didnt know there's any clan who pays their smith even though he was receiving full cost already | You don't know of any clan that does that? I just told you we did lol.
You're starting to contradict yourself.
I can't explain it any easier for you, so I'll say this last thing and be done with this thread, I'll talk to any admins in private--would be nice to hear from them for a change:
1. Smith was breaking arts to repair them with some of the money collected as money allowed
2. Some members were sending arts as well with repair cost, but it wasn't enough to keep the smith busy at all times.
Result?
Fast smith build up, to be enjoyed by the entire clan. Read my profile...my repair smith was substantially funded by the #153 clan, so in turn as agreed, my smith gives open and clear #153 repair priority and will never charge mates over 100% repair cost for standard repairs (they can pay extra for express services if they want).
All of these actions are within the game rules.
Cheers,
LS | You're starting to contradict yourself.
no, i said i didnt
and i'll ask a mod to close this thread first, until i made a through audit, i;ll inform you, not sure when though, not in the near future (:, i'll apologize if i made any false accusation in the mean time
at least i did found a clear over-30%-gift that you just returned
cheers | | closed by Lord Kotrin (2009-08-01 20:46:22) |
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