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Project LordsWM - Now A Paradox?


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AuthorProject LordsWM - Now A Paradox?
Van_GM -

and there sure are downsides when people only accumulate gold: Further, what harm did the people "abusing" the enroll system do? ...
a) first of all they draw gold out of the mines. Economy breaks down since they don't battle (therfore no art upkeep cost), the gold doesn't flow back put stays in their pockets (or worse, roulette gets it all). If they would buy arts they would at least have to let a part of their gold flow back. This may be the crucial point of the workaholic "upgrade"
b) they can keep the prices up/control the market. Not that all the gold-hoarding people are the ones doing this but from what i saw so far many of them try to make more gold with the gold they already have. What harm may it do? Please ask enchanter (who enchanted for the past half year) for this
c) they try to create huge advantages. Try to win on high levels vs someone who can afford best arts + all enchantsments any time he wants to (compared to you not having them). It definately can ruin your fun. It sort of is like getting fsp without exp.


Points A and B of your explanation seem to contradict each other... If they are pulling gold out of the mines without it flowing back, they can hardly be using it to control market prices by spending huge amounts purchasing items. The two seem to be mutually exclusive, however I may not be understanding your points or I may be oversimplifying.
Before, for each TGI, 2 TGIs could be made. That becomes an exponential progression. 1 guy gives out 2 invite, they give out 2 invites, etc. That's a problem. It may have taken a while, but supply would outstrip demand, and TGIs would have become quite cheap, making them pointless to be purchased with diamonds.

I see the TGI change as making the thieves guild in the future, a bonus feature for people who donate, or those who spend a lot of time saving money, doing 10 enrols to each successful hunt, selling elements, etc.

The game developers need funds, so I don't see it as a problem.
Hi Slynky,

Actually, I was reading and formulating my post when you made your post. So my post was made without taking yours into account.

I was concentrating on Jedi-Knight's crux of the matter.

Unfortunately, I believe that it is probably the right move for the admins to give only 1 TGI back rather than 2. With 2 TGIs potentially generated from each TGI used, ultimately the server would be flooded with TGIs and no-one would need to use diamonds to get one.

With the new rules, each TGI is now only able to create a single replacement, also requiring a significant time investment to do so. As a result the "spread" of TGIs through the server is reduced. The current pool of non-diamond TGIs not only won't increase, but will in fact likely gradually decrease over time, as some players fail to achieve TG 5. This will likely increase the value of TGIs given time, once again increasing the value of your diamond investment. It no longer requires just a few days concentrated effort and enough gold to buy decent artifacts. Instead, you need to accumulate enough gold to buy a TGI, which takes more a lot more effort due to the AP and LG rule changes. The alternative is to donate for diamonds. It is still possible to get a TGI without spending real money, but now the effort to do so probably makes the idea of donating for 80 diamonds more attractive.

For the record, I do like Mr_eee's suggestion, but that method would create a situation where *someone* would have to donate for the TGIs to be available. This would cause a part of the game that would eventually *require* donation for people to enter the Thieves Guild. At that point it could not really be said to be a totally free game, because some content could not be accessed without someone paying money. Because of the earliest Tournaments having a diamond reward component it was, at least in theory, possible for someone to get a TGI without having to donate.

For the record, I believe that players should look at investing their diamonds wisely. There are many ways in which you can use them that provides more benefit than just converting them into gold. See my older post here - https://www.lordswm.com/forum_messages.php?tid=1860350.

Grunge
Very good points, Grunge. I hadn't considered the long term decrease in TGI supply and subsequent price increase. That may well offset the reduction from 2 TGIs to 1. Unfortunately in my case, that offset won't be realized since I sold my TGI from TG2 and won't get another. The net effect is that I suffered a devaluation of an investment of real currency and that leaves me wary of further investment.
I don't know why would someone will expect "free" from a non-commercial thing.
It will never free and most of time, more expensive, from every aspect of
the real life, non-commercial always means, u need to pay more.
The non-commercial claim of LOWM is just avoid and copyright lawsuit with
HOMM5 or anything else. That doesn't mean there will be less money thing
involved.
As in any market price depend from demand and offer :)

If offer of TGI drops, more diamond buyers will spend their diamond on TGI to sell on the market (at higher than 80x2500 gold = 200k gold).

In the short term most TGI won't generate another (TG5 will require quite some time).
BUT in the long term the high TGI cost will mean a higher advantage for those who have a high TGI (did you notice that FSL 9 don't give anymore +2% initiative?) so more players will slowly reach TG5 anyway.

So TG won't be a way to make money (through TGI rent), but active players will (probably) get refunded of gold spent for buying a TGI wen at TG5 (since you can only sell it).

BTW I still don't have a TGI and saving to get one (happy for price drop. Hope it gets as low as 250k wen I buy it :)
Why have u decided, that 40% craft should be able for all? It must be rare, expensive, and now it is.

Something similiar with TG, it's become more elite.
Guys when will you understand that everything in this world is all about money !!!
To true. The above statement. Money=power, in both good ways and bad ways. Same thing happens here.
At least f2ps can enjoy the full content of the game through work, and we should be quite satisfied. Otherwize you can happily go to the other existing version(s) apart from LWM and HWM to enjoy only 2 of the 6 factions for free
Just a little observation I'd like to make concerning the Diamond price of a TGI:

I've bought 50 Diamonds already to upgrade to EFK's & Grandmaster Bowmen.

I wanted to become a Thief and would have bought a Thief Invitation at Level 6 if it would've been sold at a reasonable price (40-50 Diamonds) but 80 Diamonds was just too expensive. So the developers/programmers lost the money I would have spent on Diamonds because the price was so high.
yeah, and you paid 30 euros less to buy a tyoe if units for being a thief, without buying the thief invitation. Hope you have the three of coins in your garden :)
Thieves' guild was something really Rare, mb elite, earlier...
Now almost everyone are in TG, like if it's a hunters guild or mercenaries :/

btw some players took tgi from renters and did'n return it (they didn't reach tg level 2, left the game,were blocked ...) and that is a problem.
@ Luckas:

I didn't buy the units to be a thief. I bought them so I could have a better advantage in Hunts & Mercenary Quests. Then I was lucky because someone in one of my Clans rented me his TGI for a very reasonable price. I paid & returned the TGI within 2 weeks. I probably never would have had the opportunity to become a thief under these new rules.
"LordsWM is an non-commercial project, it is a free online service from gamers, for gamers. Every player is able to improve this free online game."

^^ Its difficult to classify as either commercial or noncommercial show greater (and often statistically significant) differences between creators and users. As a general rule, creators consider the uses to be more noncommercial (less commercial) than users. For example, uses by a not-for-profit organization are generally thought less commercial than uses by a for-profit organization, and even less so by creators than users. The one exception to this pattern is in relation to uses by individuals that are personal or private in nature. Here, it is users (not creators) who believe such uses are less commercial.

I'm just curious about that 3 little short sentences in the main page of the game - so appealing, so simple to understand, yet so full of contradictions to how the game is becoming.

^^ One thing cant be contradict that it is a free online service from gamers, for gamers, it just harder for every player to be able to get improved.
How many times have we seen vision/mission get fade away due to circumstance. One thing for sure, you guys may have notice, this game is absolutely ads-free, which is rare for a webgame or some games that even require people to pay to get full access. So to compare with other games, we're still a lucky bunch. It's true now that most new players can't compete with our high lvls because we have the advantage. But what they compete will be among their own lvls, so it's the same playing field.

One thing i really wish to see is that this game can be much bigger, could be even bigger than .ru as .com is an english server and not restricted to just russian. It has potential. But by all means, good to see someone can remind about the vision and mission of this website.
agree with Visao, why people whining around about admin 'forces' you guys to buy diamonds...

how could they support this server if no income from the players (maybe they use .ru server income to support this .com server)

so being grateful is a way to thanks the admin... > i mean just play this games and push the 'morale' of our players to play and populate this servers...

too easy to get everything gonna be boring... :P

regards
mr-lords
Part 1

Since, obviously, the main purpose of developers of this game is getting as much diamonds as possible I decided give some thoughts about it, i.e. whether they are going to achieve their goal.

Let's look at some of the updates:

1) TGI.
I agree with this part:
- only one TGI is rewarded
- it is rewarded at TG level 5
Diamonds:
yes, diamonds income will indeed increase after this rule

But I don't agree with this part:
- experience granted for TG caravan combats has been doubled.
Diamonds:
absolutely pointless rule, because it will neither increase diamonds income, nor it is what players desired.


2) Enchanting.
I don't like it, because:
- it is unfair for enchanters (I've invested in it more than a million, lucky for me I've got half million back per that crazy week, but most other enchanters wasn't so lucky)
- there is no need for 10% enchantments (too expensive), so there is no need to be the best enchanter at all (it became an absolutely pointless skill)

Diamonds:
income will not increase much, because players won't spend a huge amount of diamonds for a temporary bonus (because of limited durability, besides, repairs will require even more gold).

Instead, they could add 4th and 5th enchanter guild levels:
4th EG level: 5th enhancement
5th EG level: ability to upgrade weapons (yes, only the best enchanters should be able to do such a complex job)
Part 2

3) Workaholic.
Obviously, I don't like it, full explanation is here (read 77th post):
https://www.lordswm.com/forum_messages.php?tid=1868380&page=3

Diamonds:
income will only slightly increase, because:
- workaholic rule mostly hurts high level players, whose battles are long and it is very hard to win battles after switching to other faction (diamonds won't help here, because it would be only a temporary solution - after some number of battles the problem will be the same, so there is no point to buy diamonds for them)

- it doesn’t hurt level campers like me, because it is not a problem for me to do a battle per 10 hours, I still get the same gold and the next level I will reach only after about 1000 battles, i.e. after 3 years, because I actually do only 1 battle per day. Moreover, now I will do less battles than I planned, i.e. I will be even more deep level camper (workaholic rule forces me to do that, i.e. now I must be a level camper – I like to be a level camper, but I don’t like to be forced to do that).
One problem for me: I will have to spend more time in this game, but I chose this game, because it didn't take too much time like other very good online games, so this game won't be so attractive to such players anymore, moreover, level campers usually don't buy diamonds, so there was no point of this rule anyway (no goal achieved here).

- but the most important thing is that this rule hurts new players, which is the new possible source of diamond buyers, because they might leave this game when they realize that they are in an unfair position to other (they can't even be level campers - this the main reason why I wouldn't choose this game, because level camping is my style in almost all strategy games)


A general note:
- making this game harder to play slightly forces some players to buy diamonds
- but this game becomes less attractive to a new players
So, actually, the number of bought diamonds won't increase much by adding difficulty to the game. Moreover, the game might die, because there are plenty of really good free games on the web.

I like the words said by Slynky:
Burn me once, shame on you, burn me twice, shame on me.
In the beginning of #37 instead of
... getting as much diamonds ...
should be
... selling as much diamonds ...
Sorry Robai, you are wrong. Only few players are level campers like you and most of players want to play game, not only filling code. And this is true for most of players here (i hope). I want play battles, enrolling is only the best way how to get money for arts, building, etc. I think, that developers have not wanted make enrolling simulator, but nice game in HOMAM style, where is enrolling only one part.

Some people here saying about how to we forced to buy diamond. I have never buy diamond and i can play without no problem, even full arts group battles. We dont have to buy diamond, this game is totally free for us players. We can get full ingame content without diamonds. But if someone dont want waits for better upgrades on next level, or someone wants quick golds, he can buy diamonds. As few people wrote here, server running is not for free and money from buying diamond can help here a lot.

On the other side, few player have said, "I bought diamond, developers now must do what i want, because i have paid for this game". These players make me sad. Developers have made great game for free and no one force us to buy diamonds. And fact, that they are helped the game, which they have played for free and enjoy it, means nothing for them.

In few last weeks we have got nice upgrades. But here will be still players like Jedi-knight, who are whining about everything. Unfortunately these people spamming forum much more then satisfied players ...
This topic is long since last update and considered obsolete for further discussions.
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