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| Author | open letter to admins |
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for selfist:
Here is what is not known by many. Of course, Arctic came back and saved our server and did indeed set a lot of things right. He worked his tail off and even started to try and fix the cheating problem with the help of the jurists. We did a ton of reports on cheaters while he was busy with the major upgrades. He told us after he was done with his work, he needed a break and that is understandable. So we all took a break in hopes that we would resume our work when he recovered from burnout. He began to process our reports and we could only calculate transfers from what we could read in the logs of players because we didn't have IP checks available to us. Well when he started running them, he found so many players with multiple accounts that he took hours blocking some of them. One player had over 100 nicks and he spent all day on it, finally burning out in disgust. When the war clans were created, we shelved our work to do a war clan investigation. I would say we completed one clan with full fines and blocks, but as we were working, the clan kept taking in more cheaters. Arctic was buried under a mountain of reports. I have over 100 sitting in my mailbox that are done and need fines. During our wait period, the cheaters continued cheating, making our reports obsolete. With two teams and I think 8 people processing reports, there is no way for Arctic to handle the mess. We figured he would burn out and he did. So the cheating goes unchecked and is so vast it would make you vomit if you knew the scope of it. My fellow jurists can back me up in all I post here. | | So, one big problem of this server is the absence of a strong law. Everybody is feeling himself free to cheat, because he will not be fined for it. So, I think that one solution could be the institution of well-known people, with the rights and the power to punish cheaters. It should be composed by people from ALL War Clans, based on their good behaviour. Call them as you wish, but they could be our "Sheriffs". | Continued:
The Jury Clan is all smoke and mirrors. We are not going to take the fall for failing the server. We want to process reports and clean things up but we are powerless. Nice huh? Now the problem is growing so fast that it will never be fixed because admin won't allow anyone to fine people. We set up a system on Skype that was running smoothly. We all basically shelved our games and worked days into weeks straight for no game gold. We spent as much time on the 4th level noob gambler as the 12th level sneaky cheaters who laundered gold in clever ways. We were totally dedicated to our work and nothing got by us. It's a real shame because things looked so good at one point and we thought the server would be clean. Arctic did attempt to get admin to allow us some power but they refused, only giving us filtering systems for us to use. Sadly, we never got to put that tool to work because other events happened behind the scenes. We want to do our job but we can't. Now we see players who should be banned, collecting tournament gold in some cases, knocking honest players out of the money. We would stop that also if we could. We even volunteered to quit our clan and just be jurists,so nobody could say we had an agenda. After trying every avenue with ru admin, even writing PMs spelling out our intent and receiving no answer, we figure it is a llst cause. Poor Arctic is too nice and deserves all the credit for this server. I wish I could tell you more but it isn't my place to do so. The whole situation stinks. I just want you to know, we are willing to do the work but we can't do anything at this point. | Thanks Modi,
Thats the kind of report Im looking forward to read. Bitterness and real life experience... but you should add a pinch of hope in your posts.. dont make it too depressing (even if it is).
Hopefully your posts wont get deleted by those fanboys 'mods' with their head so stuck in *(censored)* that they can not see where we are heading.
But then we survived the dark age... we can do it again... but personally if this server dies, I will on becasue i feel less and less attached to this game every day... I will pity those diamond buyers though... | | Same as Gyver ;) | Hopefully your posts wont get deleted by those fanboys 'mods'
Are you really feeling that mods are the ones doing a bad job here? Do posts 26,31,36,37,39 really contain any important info? Although posts 41 and 43 made our situation much more clear. | Omega22:
No I believe mods are doing a great job against the odds. However, an analogy:
You visit a country (full of history and culture) plague with corruption and has a high % of unemployment, violence, rape and murder... How do would you then feel about their police force?
Why would others degrade a honest hard-working honorable job as a law enforcer?
Maybe it has *nothing* to do with the law enforcers but a way to steam off the frustration and anger of the mob (or the pack of cattle going wild).
So the law enforcer has no other option than to squeeze the already-frustrated mob into order or the leaders do something about it.
But guess what: the lords community has been squeezed before during the Dark Age I and its is now clear the leaders (admins) do *not* give a ***t.
I cant wait to study the consequences of either actions and the upcoming chaos.
[Player banned by moderator Pang until 2010-02-10 04:10:02 // no word masking] | These threads come up so often...I wonder if they hold any real meaning. Good luck with your quest selfist. I don't personally agree with several of your ideas, but I always support anything that may stimulate an admin's interest in doing SOMETHING on the server.
Cheers,
LS | Here's a fun fact:
a country (full of history and culture) plague with corruption and has a high % of unemployment, violence, rape and murder... How do would you then feel about their police force?
You've probably just described my country -.-
We feel the policemen are stupid monkeys who slack all day at work. But we keep living, since we have no viable alternative. And apart from the angry mob, everythign else fits... leaders (politicians) not caring one bit about the ones they rule, the law enforcement units protect them vigilantly, even though their misdeeds are notorius etc.
I think this game needs more freedom to develop on it's own and the lack of it (overzealous, controlling rules) is what's stopping it from boldly going where no browser MMO has gone before... /end Star Trek flashback
What we need is to have more power of decision over OUR (yes, ours, we are the masters of our self, there shouldn't be anyone telling you exactly what to do, when to do - do not misinterpret, I like laws, but some aren't exactly right if you know what I mean) future. We, the community, should be the ones deciding what we want and how we want it done. I see no reason to idly wait for the admins to throw us a bone from the table when they're done eating, we should be right there at the table with them!
*cough* Ahem. Just remember that nothing good ever comes from censorship. | Just a similar thread that seems to be mirroring this one.
https://www.lordswm.com/forum_messages.php?tid=1875104
... and yes I purposely let my last message drop, out of respect to Omega22 and those who might feel torn on whether to ban me or not, however not due to fear of the ban for I feel it was both truthful and justified.
Staying on topic, a former mod's point of view:
Those of us [titled and non-titled PLAYERS] here from the beginning [myself from May 21, 2008], have seen major problems here since the start - and yes long before I coined the phrase "the Dark Ages of LWM".
Some players still dont know there are private forums for chat and forum mods to discuss situations of the game amongst mods only. That is where most of these topics are brought up, and sadly, that is where most of them die.
It seems there was always 1-2 months of admin activity followed by at least 3 times as long of inactivity. Activity includes updates AND general maintenance and cleaning of the game.
Other players (and even many mods) dont know that when Arctic went away for personal reasons, there was actually a substitute to take his stead (who will remain private). Needless to say, the power given to him was minimal, which is one of the major problems I have seen for quite some time. Admins do not entrust anything to those other themselves (programming, higher policing power, helpful brainstorming, etc).
As told before, admins do not trust [anyone] with Arctic's project - and yes it's worded that way on purpose. Long before the Juries came along, a Player named Skunder petitioned the 'private forums' to create a policing force - those capable of banning players for cheating, placing phishing sites, obscene behavior on profiles and public venues, and the like. This was ignored for probably a year before [he] raised the situation again and I believe it was seconded by either Zyanya or Takesister. The result (when Arctic returned) was the Jury system - which as Modi posted above - holds no real power.
[He] also suggested a mod-court whose objective was to make sure the mods were acting correctly. Basically becoming 'captains of the mods' to judge the actions of the moderators of all clans. That never really came to existence either.
Multiple attempts have been made to reach the admins through sending letters in russian to them via .ru and I believe email, speaking to the 'person taking Arctic's place', as well as Arctic himself.
It is sad to say, but, this "open letter to the admins" is most likely not going to achieve its purpose, whatever that may be. They have made it apparent that they run the show and they hold all the cards. Others have voluntered in every facet that I can think of, but little to no action has been made to increase the survival rate of lordswm.com...
Discussion about mods:
Mods have been the scapegoat and target of the general public for some time. I recognize this as the only possible solution though, since the admins have purposely kept themselves from the public eye. However, it seems strange to me, that as Modi posted above about the Juries, the Mods received the brunt of the attack for the lack of response of the admins (and even from himself). Have mods been perfect in their assessment of every situation? No. they are still people, as flawed as the rest of you. Do they deserve the blame which they have taken? Sometimes, maybe. But no, not in the wide range that they have.
And I say this not to bring further fuel to this subject, but to disseminate the situation, Modi posted above (in 41+43) about the Juries: "We are not going to take the fall for failing the server" or with such comments from Gyver in post 44 (which seems in contrast to his post in 47, which seems more understanding). I don't believe the mods should also take such blame. Mods have had their hands tied as much as and moreso than the Juries, and with even more responsibility since they are mo | since they are more in the public eye and kept LWM running when the admins AND Arctic both were MIA.
The exodus of the recent Players, and many mods, is not by chance. Sadly I think I fueled many of the mods to leave their posts, but in the end I think they see the truth of the situation. The admins of LWM.com must come to terms with this: they can NOT effectively handle this server with only one person looking over it, and also while neglecting the donated service of many dozens of other people.
Then again, I suppose that is the best way to show your lack of faith and invested interest in an unwanted server anyways. | | There are answers to a lot of questions but they can't be told and not for the lack of wanting to disclose. I really don't feel like getting banned for straight talk. I will say this; as I had recently told Limu in chat, I will wait for people to begin to question what is going on with the jury system and BEFORE there is unrest about inaction, I will disclose to the public what is happening. Why did I wait? Because I didn't want players to know there was no police force and cheat even more. I also was able to extract some stolen loot and get it back into the hands of the players who foolishly shared their passwords with some PMs. I view myself as a player first and because there is no wall between myself and the community I was willing to come out and tell it like it is as soon as I started seeing the first few complaints. That's how it should be done but wasn't for the other sectors.(in most cases) Who can complain about us now? Gee, that was a hard situation to solve. No, " write to Secretary," or " we don't have to explain ourselves to YOU," or the much heralded " I won't tell you how you can be banned, it's up to me to decide." And there is wonder about why there was unrest? Wow. Now prepare to read all sorts of nasty things about me that will be just peachy to leave in the forum. It's easy to accuse someone when you control the ban button and thus any defense a player may produce. I can't speak about the days before I came to this server but a simple " reaching out" thread to the community would have solved 99% of the unrest. Did I attack anyone personally in this thread? Nope. Can I expect the same? Nope. | well, guys, cut the personal attack. post something constructive.
dont start next attack or flame
Modi>
can you use paragraph? it is a wonderful thing which allow readers' eye feel better :) | [Post deleted by moderator Kotrin // Posting with multi]
[Player banned by moderator Kotrin until 2010-02-09 10:19:48 // Posting with multi.] | HAHAHAHAHAH sorry forum mods :P i forgot to log on my main before posting :P i was a bit stirred and did not pay attention please ban thundarian from posting in forums and i will take the standard punishment for it as well. but i ask would you please delete the post from him and i will repost it here in this post its on topic and appropriate
basic online gaming community issues couple with super tight Game creator protective issues coupled with legal issues.... always hard to juggle. but here is what any online game need to be successful
1 A full time dedicated Admin who holds all the real power
2 2 to 3 full time assistant Admins who holds power only over the mods
3 a hand full of general staff call them mods... forum mods chat mods and game mods
---- forum mods monitor and enforce law in forums
---- Chat mods monitor and enforce law in chat
---- Game mods monitor and enforce game rules
4 an appeals officer or two ... only job is to refer true cases of a player that needs a second chance or some verdict overturned by the admins
5 a tech specialist or help line these people have no power at all but can answer alot of them "what do i do" mails.... or "i am stuck how do i fix it" mails and these techies can refer the mail to admins if its a bug or they might even be able to have some answers to suggest to the player...
but aside from this basic structure of staffing.... for a game to survive this online gaming industry OPEN AND CONSTANT COMMUNICATION..... days and days weeks and weeks to months of no real information will really hurt any game.
Before the standard flamers and power hungry "i cool cause i been here since day one" folks start to try and say i don't know what i am talking about let me just say I was on staff for online games now for almost 8 years now.. Starting with a game called Everquest :P i beta tested the original and was a volunteer mod for year then i moved over to Dark ages of Camelot beta tested and mod there for 2 years took up playing free online browser games like Tribalwars and Travion became staff there as well. So i do have a bit of knowledge as to how things work.
Personally i have been playing this game now for almost a year and some months. i have donated almost 1000 US dollars over that time. I am here to tell you at this point i wont donate another dime till the staff issues are worked out and the "GODS" Game organizing Directors & Shareholders make the choice to seriously structure this server and give it more attention and make it the great strong server that it could be. | (55) Gargoylerex : I have donated almost 1000 US dollars over that time. ouch !!
wonder where u spend so many diamonds.
Sory, I was occupied last few days (just few hunts etc) and not followed whats going on (some personel issues ?) in this forum which I'm beginning to feel sorry to start.
anyway, I had some better idea of what was the work done in cheater hunt following grand upgrade days, so not all that bad.
cant resist to share my initial feeling about cheater hunt : why bother with low level multies ? Just kill high level account (10,11 whatever u find sufficiently high enuf to inflict pain to cheater). imo persistant innocent will raise high and get rid of cheater bunch if control mechanism is sure to stop high level cheaters at any time, even (or especialy) for his/her past crimes. | cant resist to share my initial feeling about cheater hunt : why bother with low level multies ? Just kill high level account (10,11 whatever u find sufficiently high enuf to inflict pain to cheater). imo persistant innocent will raise high and get rid of cheater bunch if control mechanism is sure to stop high level cheaters at any time, even (or especialy) for his/her past crimes.
Initially we were told to begin on a particular page in the forum section and work back from there, while the other team worked in the opposite direction. We started that way but changed to our own method after a week.
We also thought it was a waste of time tracking 4th level cheaters. In many cases, they even stopped playing and just enrolled to gamble with their 10+ accounts, sending over each hour of enrollment to their main from the alts. It was just stupid not to block the whole lot of those useless accounts but I think Arctic had to show the admin that he better have a good reason to block or fine and I understand that.
He also wanted to close entire pages of reports in the forum section so we didn't have to keep going back to find scattered reports that weren't finished and locked.
When the war clans came out, I petitioned him to drop our work and concentrate on them, not knowing when the dwarves were coming. We wanted a level playing field for all war clans. I did 4 war clans myself but they never got processed and the last issue that was brought up was a war clan that militarized using illegal methods. Arctic told us he would bring the issue to ru admins but we never heard another word about it.
After the other clans spent so many months raising money to upgrade, to see a clan do it in days by a few rich members handing out gold to others for donations that were sent right back to the clan, I had enough.
I'm just glad we got the two week tournament before things fell apart because that's the only thing we have to break up the boredom of same old same old.
If the sever dies it dies. We will all find another venue for fun. Donations? You don't get donations for something you don't feed and watch over. We knew this was coming though, didn't we? One man away from the abyss is not any way to conduct business. | Modi>
can you use paragraph? it is a wonderful thing which allow readers' eye feel better :)
he can... Chuck can do anything....
as I see this problem:
enjoy the ride as long as it last as much as you can.... |
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