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| Author | Disregard for battle description --> poor sportmanship ? |
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| While I know it is not against the rules to disregard the battle description in GB's, shouldn't this be considered as poor sportmanship? (for purposely ruining other's people time, money, arts, and ultimately...fun!!) | Question:
While I know it is not against the rules to disregard the battle description in GB's, shouldn't this be considered as poor sportmanship? (for purposely ruining other's people time, money, arts, and ultimately...fun!!)
Answer: yes
Will anything be done of it: No | Will anything be done of it: No
because...
it is a matter of consistency. since screenshots don't count as accurate proof to admins and taking somebodies word is pretty difficult to do, a penalization could only come from catching somebody in the act.
but if people that set up min AP battles don't get their compensation they'll complain that it is the same thing. whether their appeal would be genuine or not, it would be too hard to prove, causing more and more problems in the game. it is a lose-lose situation for people, so admins just had to take a chance and use their best judgment to decide which situation they would try to cover.
it would seem that they couldn't win either way, but no use trying to change the rules here i suppose | Will anything be done of it: No
Why not????
According to clan webpage of "#373 LWM - Keepers. Violations in tavern and battles": https://www.lordswm.com/clan_info.php?id=7373, the clan's duty is to penalize bad sportmanship.
And looking through the list of clan members, our very own Pang and Zyanya are members of the clan, hence have the authority to apply the penalties.
So, Pang and Zyanya, why don't you do your job and penalize the bad sports? | https://www.lordswm.com/forum_messages.php?tid=1853328
7. Combat description is just a request not obligation. And thus transgressing the combat description is not a violation of game rules.
The reason. | for Straws: But that doesn't mean is not poor sportmanship! Please review #1: While I know it is not against the rules to disregard the battle description.
I argue that it IS bad sportmanship however, and there are penalties for such things. | | Google exception. | for Straws: Moreover, according to https://www.lordswm.com/forum_messages.php?tid=1876910&page=1#364030, Kotrin (who at the time was a mod) stated: doing nothing while helping in hunt is just exposing oneself to bad sportsmanship penalties if the other guy complains.
So why is it bad sportmanship to do nothing while assisting in a hunt, although there are no rules or requirements that ask you to do anything in such case, BUT you don't consider it poor sportmanship to break a clearly written request by other players and wreak havoc through their plans/hopes of fun game (mind you, you can have fun even when you loose, but fairly so!) ? | I view it as bad sportsmanship, but I'm no Admin, or even a Keeper. As for why Admin decided that transgressing the combat description is not a violation of game rules, I don't know, maybe misself is right or close.
Also, she didn't get any penalty. | I view it as bad sportsmanship
Referring to the title. | Also, she didn't get any penalty.
That's irrelevant to the question!
I just wanted to establish weather it is bad sportmanship to disregard battle description. Despite the fact there are many complaints about these cases, there is nowhere clearly stating that this is a behavior worthy of fines and penalties!
Hear thee everyone that there are fines for proven poor sportmanship and disregard for battle description is poor sportmanship! Those in charge should penalize it!
Whenever one brings this issue up, they are just slammed with 7. Combat description is just a request not obligation.. This is just ridiculous! Why nobody follows this up for the poor sportmanship case?
Thanks to misself, #3 for clearing out why it's not currently possible to act on the infractions (we post almost in the same time).
My next question: Why nobody wants to do anything to tackle this problem: get irrefutable proof that bad sportmen violated the battle description?
My point is that there are many cases of disregard for battle descriptions, hence ==> poor sportmanship. People get even to boast for disregarding descriptions, and take pride in it: https://www.lordswm.com/forum_messages.php?tid=1878989&page=0#382339
And despite it IS BAD SPORTMANSHIP, nobody cares about it, and those who do are ridiculed and bashed in dismissal even by our "finest" jurors! (same thread referred to above).
So why are our mods (generally LWM-..... clan members) complacently either ignoring or joining into bashing those who are reclaiming, or trying to do something about tackling somehow (anyhow!!!) the problem of poor sportmanship players? | there is nowhere clearly stating that this is a behavior worthy of fines and penalties!
Because it is already stated otherwise....
7. Combat description is just a request not obligation. And thus transgressing the combat description is not a violation of game rules.
Note: not a violation of game rules. So Keepers should not, and do not fine these "bad sports". | And see, there is no point in arguing here, in Q&H forum, really.
And I believe all your questions had been answered:
Bad sportsmanship? Yes, to most of us.
Rule violation? No, clearly stated by the admin.
Why Keepers do not give out fines to those accused? Because they act by the rule.
Want a change? Stick to I&S forum. | [Post deleted by moderator Straws // ]
[Player banned by moderator Straws until 2010-04-14 14:05:59 // Flood.] | lol good point boobies...
Now on the topic, I think Straws wrote it all. "Bad sportsmanship" is a vague rule, while not respecting battle description is explicitly stated as NOT a rule break by admins.
Chances that Keepers don't follow admins are quite slim, if you want my point of view.
So don't try to twist Bad sportsmanship rule break as to have unfair players fined for not respecting AP rules or anything. Doomed to fail - unless admins change their point of view, of course. | | [Post deleted by moderator Straws // ] | No, I am not suggesting not following admin's rules! I go by the book myself, but that doesn't mean I can not question the book, and suggest (part of) it be rewritten.
There has been a precedent of a bad sportmanship case, https://www.lordswm.com/forum_messages.php?tid=1867952, where the culprit has been (rightfully) penalized.
Imho wasting someone else's time in a combat while reaching the same outcome (but delayed) is not as grave as wasting at least one other player's (but usually 3 or 5 other player's) time, money, arts, fun, and *cheating* to unfairly change a battle's outcome (by disregard of the battle description). People do choose to go against battle description in combats, in purpose!
Since we all agree that the later is bad sportmanship (we do, right?), then why do admins choose to deliberately close their eyes for this particular case of ... cheat?
And lastly, when a suggestion to enforce AP restriction in GB is made in I&S, why do people choose to mock it, boast about doing so themselves, or at best ignore it?
Why can't we suggest a rule change, the one that legalizes this particular type of bad sportmanship? After all, https://www.lordswm.com/help.php?section=5 The rules are not created to oppress the players' rights and game possibilities, but to protect the game community from cheaters and louts. | I revoke the sentence So, Pang and Zyanya, why don't you do your job and penalize the bad sports? from post #4.
I somehow had the understanding that there are two types of bad behaviors:
1) in direct contravention to the rules, and which constitutes direct violation, always, anytime, no matter the circumstance (e.g., swearing, financial assist, staged combats, etc....)
2) interpretable and subjective bad behavior which is not a violation of the rules per se, but given the situation and circumstance, might constitute bad behavior worthy of penalties.
Since disregard of combat description can not ALWAYS be a game infraction (e.g., say description is "Those who join must loose combat", or "You must play naked"), my understanding was that, it does not qualify for point 1) above (made clear by rule 7). However, depending of the situation and case, it can be poor sportmanship. Hence, subject to point 2) above.
I didn't mean to suggest not following admins' rules. Nor that Pang and Zyanya don't do their job. No offense meant, and my apologies to both of you if felt offended. | | closed by Lord naviron (2010-06-08 05:12:18) |
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