| Author | What is so great with thieving? |
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for Slust:
maybe 2*Ring of doubts and luck amulet fits u. the very lucky can boost ur victorys ! |
TG is very difficult for necro especially with low skill
it is better for DE or Demon
but if you dislike cyclops infected zombies will help you ;) |
| Min AP thieving is awesome,unfortunately i just levelled and the 20% increase means im losing again (not getting smashed though) but yes Min AP wins is definitely something to aspire to. Feel free to check my log if you like lv 11 has a lot of Min AP ambushes |
| necro and wiz are worst factions for TG but still possible if u dont mind alot looses. |
Pound for pound, caravans are the 'hardest' of all the different types of battles available.
- The stacks are in insane numbers,
- the creatures all have increased stats (defense, attack etc) as compared to the same type in hunts/quests. Just go look at the EFKs/Sprites/Faeries etc, initiative after the Hero cast Rapid!!,
- For magic factions, the Hero have mind-boggling Know and SP.
- Same faction caravans have resistance against you,
Add them all together, and little wonder that caravans are very tough.
I started thieving at lvl 7 and I was a knight when I started. It was well known back then that with the smaller map and the higher caravan difficulty when thieving as a knight, knights are 1 of the worse (together with Wiz) faction for thieving. While I'm still very much a noob as a thief, I have always managed to do pretty well with my win/loss ratio throughout the levels I was in.
Except for the race to get to TG2 to return my TGI when I started, I have never used full arts for thieving. BUT, at the same time, I have never used min AP to thieve too. I went (and still doing) the medium arts (steel sets, defender shield, SoM etc) route and I have always managed to get the usual 40-50% win ratio. Now with my high fsp, I can get about 70-80% win rate in medium arts, and I didn't lose 100s of them to lower the difficulty. Once they get too difficult, that's when I'll change faction and just incur the losses (which I will anyway with the low racial level) to bring down the difficulty.
What I'm basically trying to say is with the inherent comparatively 'increased' strength of caravans as compared to other types of battles, don't expect to get anywhere near decent win ratio if you are doing it with low faction level AND min arts. That's just a recipe for 100s (some say 1000s) of losses after losses.. |
I just changed to necro and leveled up to level 12.
I would say that necro is pretty good in thieving.
I play without skeleton bowmans and feel good about it. |
The entire problem is your low faction level and your arts. Necro is faction level dependent. If you had high faction level and used enchanted full arts, then you could have sustained high win rate all the way to TG4.
But with low necro faction and min arts you are just asking to lose. There are no difficulty resets, but caravans do get harder as you level up. I'm also thieving as a low necro faction with min arts. I don't expect to win this way and have lost over 1000 ambushes in this fashion. But I know that if my faction level was higher and I put on full arts my win rate would jump from 0 to a good rate. |
well, with low faction, nerco wasnt so bad in thieving. you dont expect your range unit can survive long enough, dont you? :)
the worst thieving faction with low faction lvl is knight. yet, i dont see much knight cry for it BUT a nerco complain hard thieving here? ;p |
for Pang:
I'm pretty sure players from every single faction have complained about thieving. :) |
#28
couldn't agree more
with current thieving map, the map is too big for knight..you all know how short legs knight have ..hehe..before the update the tile is so small swordmen only take 1 round already reached middle..now?may be 2 or 3 rounds
on topic:thieving give you exp and faction nicely..1 fight 1 fsp..i can see the point that why TGI is banned from leasing..it is unfair to old player that used to be 0.5 fsp per win fight...
by this 1 fsp per fight advantages..admin make it hard to gain TGI ..its pretty obvious that admin do this on purpose |
by this 1 fsp per fight advantages..admin make it hard to gain TGI ..its pretty obvious that admin do this on purpose
They could get the remaining fsp by loosing a hunt earlier. It is just that admins want more money. |
the worst thieving faction with low faction lvl is knight. yet, i dont see much knight cry for it BUT a nerco complain hard thieving here? ;p
My ratio on knight was 100:1 (100 lose) and i was happy ;) |
| My ratio on knight was 47:0 (47 wins in a row) and I was happy until my enchanted weapon broke. :) |
I am also level 10 thieving with necro, and started with a low faction level, just managed to get to level 4.
I have found using mass disrupt quite useful, as it is effective against everything, and means my damage is maximised (useful for keeping vamps alive longer)
I wouldn't say this has allowed me to win in my min arts a massive amount of times, but I do fairly consistently get reasonable fsp from losses. With some decent fsp, you will get more skellie bows and it will get easier (takes them longer to kill bows, therefore vamps and appas do more damage before main threats switch onto them)
I would personally imagine expert erudition as not so good. for 3 talents you get 5 stat bonuses at your level, with basic erudition and wisdom, you can get the equivalent of 4 stat bonuses (2 for normal, and then 2 knowledge equivalents). Just depends how useful you find basic nature - which for thieving I would say summon phantom is useless, while the bonus to raise dead with no spell power is limited.
You will always find cyclops hard, I think the only ones that can cope with them is Dark elves, as you can use 1 shrew to block, and whittle them down to get a lizard charge in, every other faction I would imagine struggles. As a necro I also find elves very hard, esecially since I switched from knights, who found elves very easy. |
| Thievings is FUN-TASTIC ! U know that we are gonna get a lot of lessons with that .. and every time we win, that is always harder than any group battles .. :) |
the worst thieving faction with low faction lvl is knight. yet, i dont see much knight cry for it BUT a nerco complain hard thieving here? ;p
This game doesn't lack whinners for sure, yet, I'm not complaining about necro being bad at thieving, nor asking for necro to get stronger; all I wanted to know is other players's view on thieving, because I don't find it that great as what I could have red about it.
Thanks for the replies, I feel a bit better with TG. Maybe I should do thieving with more AP; yet, I can't afford to use much more than min AP; I need to save gold for a brand new full set due to lvl up and for wiz builds.
for MilesTeg:
I like using expert erudition since I find it's better than defense talents in most cases and is better suited than magic talents: fights must end fastly againt magic caravans because of their very high dmg... So, more atk is the best choice to go. Then, with talent points left, I don't have much of a choice so, yeah, basic nature is pretty useless but I usually just raise (I raise, stack dies from lightning, then raise again and lightning...), so basic darkness would be even more useless. It's not a bad idea to use mass disruption, I'll have a try :) |
| 28 im thiefing as knight low faction i dont c it harder then necro infact i win much more then when i was necro so maybe its harder for knight at low lvl but at lvl 14 necro is much worse for caravans :) |
@36: Phantom is not useless. It's tricky to time it, and to be honest requires a bit of luck. A couple tips for phantom:
- if your hero turn comes first(before ennemi hero), wait one turn before casting so the phantom has a good chance to get a turn.
- always cast it on a stack who is going to get his turn. This allows the phantom to get his turn almost instantly.
- Sometimes you can save a phantom by blocking a shooter with a real stack. The AI will often focus on the blocker.
@37: That must be because of the über priest upgrade. I've switched to knight at lvl 13, and appart from shooting large creatures and monsters with xbows, it's just helpless. |
well, even with faction lev2 at combat lev10 I managed to win around ~10% of my ambushes in min AP. So I dont think knights are that weak.
(or I just lost so many ambushes that my caravans are really weak) |
Any faction can win a lot in a row. You can always lose enough caravans until you get to a point where you win. Anyone could get 50 or so in a row if they wanted to by doing min arts (and even deliberately losing a few) so the caravans are easy and then up the arts a bit each caravan until you are up to full are 4x10% enchants.
The only point of doing full arts when thieving is for the rare occaision you meet a human enemy. I think the extra durability you waste full arting isn't worth those few extra PvP wins. |
