| Author | Knockback of wasp swarm compared to dom. of tempest |
|---|
Hey,
I'm messing around a bit. ;)
I wonder which stun effect is better:
Wasp swarm with advanced nature magic: knock back by 0.4 of ATB scale
versus
Lightning with dominion of tempest: knock back of accumulated initiative by 30%
Does "0.4 of ATB scale" mean the same as "40% of accumulated initiative"?
Thanks in advance :) |
| I don't think so, it all depends on the creature's initiative...CMIAW |
It does not.
Remember the lap race?
0.4 of ATB scale is 40% of one full lap.
30% of accumulated initiative is 30% of the distance the runner has run since crossing the finish line for the last time. |
I believe that 0.4 of ATB scale means 0.4 turns of a normal 10 initiative hero. Therefore it is good for high initiative units because they "freeze" in time and don't get to their turn. 40% of accumulated initiative would mean that depending on how much the creature time the creature has since it was their turn, it would then take out 40% of it. Therefore it is good for low initiative creatures.
But you need to take note of the damage. Lighting deals more damage then Wasp swarm. |
| So if understand this correctly, 0.4 is more then 30% in any case? |
| In any possible case, yes. |
I'm not exactly sure, but this is my belief:
0.4 of ATB scale means a 40% reduction in turn (for 1 turn).
30% of accumulated initiative means a 30% reduction of the accumulated initiative for that turn. Let's say a stack is 10% into its turn or requires 90% more time till next turn, then 30% reduction means that 10% turns into 7%.
So I believe 0.4 ATB scale is better. |
| @ Choojeremy: I intend to play with spellpower 0, so the damage is low in any case. ;) |
In any possible case? Really? It seems to me that it's possible that 30% of accumulated initiative can be more than 0.4 ATB, at least if I've understood things right.
0.4 ATB is always 40% of a 10 initiative "lap".
A unit with 5 Initiative (through a Delay for example) that has passed 99% of his own lap (almost 2 laps with 10 initiative) that loses 30% of accumulated initiative, which in this case equals 60% of a 10 initiative lap, and hence will lose effectively 0.6 ATB?
I'm not trying to be a bother here; only trying to see if I've misunderstood something. |
| Except every runner runs on the same track, only at different speed. |
| And different lane of course. :) |
I think wind attack will knock back the target by 30% of its initiative.If the initiative of a unit is 20, it will get a position which it would receive if its initiative was 14(20 -6).About wasp swarm , it would knock the taerget by .4 on ATB scale whatever the initiative of creature may be like this-
1 .9 .8 .7 .6 .55 .5 .49 .4 .3 . 2 .1 0
hero Hit a b c d e f g h .....
unit
Consider the hit unit was on ATB scale .9 before getting hit. After getting hit by wasp swarm, the unit will be at .5 after 'd' but before 'f' .
So I think wasp swarm is useful against slow initiative units and tempest against high initiative unit as wind would knock back a unit depending on its initiative like knocking a 20 initiative by .6 on ATB scale . A necromancer used expert wasp( .6 ATB knockback) swarm to prevent sphinx warrior( 7 initiative) from getting turn.She hit it with her vamps and finally when it's turn came, vamps retreated to safety. |
for vishnus:
Knock back effect of DoT has nothing to do with the initiative parameter of creature, read #3 again. |
Only insight I can add is that chain lightning knocks all stacks that were hit by chain lightning.
Still holding my breath and waiting for the Arctics clarification on the points made in post 9. :-) |
What's to be clarified?
It is explainable in terms of physics. There is time, speed and distance.
When something is knocked back on ATB Scale by 0.4, it is moved backwards at the same distance regardless of its current initiative.
When something loses 30% of accumulated initiative, it is moved backwards by 30% of what it has already covered, also in terms of distance and also Regardless of >current initiative<.
In case if 99% of the lap was covered, it is moved back by 30% of the lap. Then you may look at the creature's initiative to foresay how long will it still take to cover the remaining ~30% of the lap, compared to a creature with init. 10. Is that what you mean?
Pardon me, but then something, moved back by 0.4 of the scale ALSO will cover that same "stolen" covered distance depending on its current initiative =) And you also tend to compare it to a creature with init. 10 to predict the moment of its next turn.
Right? |
1 ATB scale = A * B. A is speed (initiative of creatures and heroes), B is "time" taking to cover the lap.
We basically don't feel that time, because we don't see the EXACT position of creatures on the ATB scale, only the order. One creature following another could mean, that they are almost near each other; or as well it might mean that they are very far, there's just nothing in between.
The ATB is a constant, so
A*B=Const. when A increases, B is bound to decrease. |
Yes, absolutely right.
I was under the misconception that 1 ATB was the time it took one unmodified hero (or a 10 ini creature) to finish one lap.
It's actually one lap for a stack with the ini it currently has, which means that 1 ATB takes different time for different stacks. |
Even if only understand 50% of what you guys wrote (I will read again until I get it), thanks a lot. :)
I leave this topic open for the case someone wants to contribute to this "science discussion". |
If i understand it correctly, the initiative of the target creature doesn't matter in both cases.
Also, for wasp swarn, it doesn't matter if the creature is about to move or if it just got it's turn. Advanced wasp will always knock for 0.4 atb, possibly pushing the creature into a negative amout of acumulated initiative.
For dominion of tempest on the other hand, the knock effect depends on the acumulated initiative. If the target had acumulated 99% of it's requiered initiative to get a turn, it will be knocked back for 0.3 atb. If the target just got it's turn and has 0% acumulated initiative, dominion of tempest has no effect at all.
In short,
Advanced wasp = constant 0.4 atb knockback
Dominion of tempest = 0 to 0.3 atb knockback depending on accumulated initiative.
If you are only considering the knock effect and not the damage, wasp is better.
Don't forget that unlike tempest, wasp has no effect on undead. |
possibly pushing the creature into a negative amout of acumulated initiative.
Scientific discussion again. Can acumulated initiative be negative? |
