| Author | Do barbs need a better faction skill? |
|---|
barb worst enemy is magician now..their gargoyle defense on the conner and hero finish off wolf or rocs.and orc is not enough to kill all gargoyle. please change back barb racial ability.strongly support barb to have magic proof since we do not have ability to do magic.
this sounds more like a vendetta against magicians hehehe. it appears to me that you want your ability only so that you can kill magicians again.
no need to change barb's ability. waiting is good. keep it that way :) |
since we do not have ability to do magic.
your unit do have ability to DO magic, it was called as 'orge magi' :D |
i wouldnt like combat readiness taken back for magic resistance... Although the fact that at lower faction levels say upto fl 6, its not really useful but it is so in the case of other factions... when you reach fl 8-9 this is pretty good.
Ofcourse, barb is nothing but offensive(for most of us) but we need to move here and there with wolves before being able to attack as not many enemy units would try coming in its range.... so while a barb moves to aim, this thing accumulates ;) |
for Warlock naviron:
not only magician X)
for Pang:
i feel like verbally punch by you.thanks for reminding me of my orge magi.=)
for virtual_vitrea:
yeah true.but against magician we still become dead meat.LOL.i mean barb naturally is a good attacker.high melee attack boost up by offensive talent,but it would be balanced up if barb have magic proof.then barb will be invincible with good strategies.X)
barb player come come give more opinion.X) |
I'm not expressing an official opinion, but I believe it was creator's intention to not have an invincible faction.
Already (dark) elves are the majority by far. How many (noob) questions I've seen in Q&A from beginners asking which is the best/most powerful faction.
Imagine what would the world be if over 90% of characters would be barbarian... Then you'd find magic protection useless, and would require admins to give you another special ability (the parody of that...)
It is however true that barbs are not among the prefered factions. |
In my opinion, combat readiness doesn't match with Barb's fast attack style. While it still gives some advantages, I think it has more disadvantages especially against magicians.
If Barbs try to accumulate, the magician will kill them by the time they've accumulated enough to attack.
Also certain factions such as Dwarves and DE's doesn't give time to accumulate. They'll just march and take down the Wolfs/Rocs/Orc Chiefs little by little with their amazing initiative and speed
I think Barbs can still match Elves, Undeads, with some strategies, although it will be difficult
Against Demons, I don't know very much since I rarely fight them but when I do it's also difficult but perhaps it's the strategy factor
Against Knights, it's next to impposible in my opinion if the Knight is holy build but possible if it's a non magic knight
Against new factions such as Holy Knight and Tribals, I don't know very much either since I haven't researched their abilities and haven't fought them often
In the end, I agree that Combat Readiness is to be replaced. But I don't think Magic Proof is good either because at a certain FSP it would be overpowered against magicians
I'm talking this from point of view of CL10, FSP7, and based from my experience
Correct me if I'm wrong :) |
lol you think barbs are weak.... that is a funny joke XD
funny how I always get wrecked by barbs :P that is why I built resist to them
they way you can counter magicians as a barb is to take thrusting might+wieghty weapons and you can nuke them right back with your hero+stun their units. Go max orc, max wolf, as many rocs as possible and 4 cyclops and leftover magi for chast. Against wiz it also may be better to charge forward with orcs instead of shooting. I have tried this once with great success as wiz couldn't handle all my charging units XD |
yeah true.but against magician we still become dead meat.LOL.i mean barb naturally is a good attacker.high melee attack boost up by offensive talent,but it would be balanced up if barb have magic proof.then barb will be invincible with good strategies.X)
It would be balanced? Why? It would only destroy the balance already made. Before the update, wizards only had chance to win barb if they were AFK or had 0 fsl. Now, it is more balanced, and both have good chances to win. Returning to the old system would only make this problem come back again.
I'm not expressing an official opinion, but I believe it was creator's intention to not have an invincible faction.
I believe in it too. The game would be boring if there was only 1 faction, or 1 faction stronger among all. |
| it's pretty good since rocs have high ini and you wait 2 turns at least or maybe 3 before the melee turn starts...but it is not as good as it was before and by that i mean the magic proof |
| And how is magic proof supposed to help you? You'd be invincible against wizards but what is the benefit when the melee turn starts? |
In my opinion, combat readiness doesn't match with Barb's fast attack style.
It suits the Barbarian style perfectly. Barbarians have 4 units that cannot (usually) hit anything on their first move. They need to run to the enemy first which means at least 1 level of combat readiness on their first strike. Now imagine getting tons of Initiative and Morale combined with Retribution talent...
If Barbs try to accumulate, the magician will kill them by the time they've accumulated enough to attack.
Your problem is that you are focusing on waiting and defending to accumulate readiness. The Barbarian ability also accumulates when moving. There will be opportunities to accumulate readiness as the game progresses without having to wait or defend. And it does not take a lot of accumulation to matter. Even one level of readiness can make a subtle difference. But of course, everyone wants a flashy eye catching impressive skill...
And this: http://lgnd.ru/gt/balance
Barbarians are actually slightly better than Wizards and they beat the Drow most of the time. |
In general, I don't believe people want magic proof back; general consensus is that it overpowered the class. However, most people agree that combat readiness weakened the faction unreasonably when compared to other faction bonuses.
@Grusharaburas:
My input suggestion made the combat bonus of charging more feasible, requiring the stack to move to gain a bonus puts new limitations and new possibilities on the faction, requiring them to constantly move every turn (much like the common strategy for DE Liz Calv)
@Magier:
It has already been agreed upon that magic proof ability overwhelmed the abilities of most enemies. I believe you are taking the approach to the question, "How would this overpower class?" in the same way the devs originally approached it. Honestly, magic proof was already in and the community as a whole deemed it overpowered. Not to mention that being invincible to one particular class is overpowering in itself because representation in the victim's class would drop significantly for that combat level. |
overall,I think moist barbs want it changed to something more useful, and most non barbs wizards esp want it to remain there.
The ability resets after one hit. So it works for one strike of the ogre and the Wolf raider. It is not there for a long time either. After this one hit, the Wolf raider and the ogre is always in action. Orcs go into action immediately, rocs in one or two moves.
I don't mean that magic resist be brought back. But something that rewards attacking instead of waiting. And "how to defeat wizards" isn't the question here . Barbs are definitely a less played faction now. There are reasons for it, me thinks. |
| Not to mention that the current system rewards people who miss several turns... |
for slayerofall
I wouldn't know about Barb with Ogre Magi and Cyclops since I'm still CL 10 but I do agree that kind of strategy works sometimes :D
I was hoping that in CL 11 everything would change :)
What I write was from my experience in CL 10
for Grusharaburas
I agree with the 'getting lots of initiative' part, but getting around 7~10% init is the best I can get. But in my opinion going for fast initiative means we're aiming to strike before the enemy strikes thus reducing the moment to accumulate combat readiness. The problem is, after we get into battle we won't have any more turn to accumulate (except if we decide to wait or run from the enemy) because we'll keep attacking each turn.
for _Huntress_
If we look from the positive point of view, then yes it is favorable :D
Well I thought that the Magic Proof was overpowered, but I don't like the CR ability too much either. |
I don't mean that magic resist be brought back. But something that rewards attacking instead of waiting. And "how to defeat wizards" isn't the question here . Barbs are definitely a less played faction now. There are reasons for it, me thinks.
It has always been like this, even before the change. "dps" factions have always been favored, because impressive and easy to play; ie elf and DE. For playing as a barb with an alt, I believe they are not liked much, because they are all or nothing esecially in early levels. If you get first hit with hobs, you win. If not, you loose. Problem is that hobs are slower than most other melee, so getting that hit requires proper planning that most low lvl players don't - can't - have.
The ability resets after one hit.
In PvP, most often times, first hit is all that matters. Once a stack is half dead, I doesn't matter if there will be 5 efk left or none after next hit. Actually, it's usually all about one single move, where you get rid of a very stack that prevents you to exploit a faction weakness. Rest is all about not doing stupid mistakes only.
However, most people agree that combat readiness weakened the faction unreasonably when compared to other faction bonuses.
I have seen it many times and I still fail to understand how increased dmg in ANY fight compared to bonus only against magic weakened barb against might player. |
| Personally, I would prefer a smaller increase in damage but a permanent on. Like 1% damage increase per faction level. |
I have seen it many times and I still fail to understand how increased dmg in ANY fight compared to bonus only against magic weakened barb against might player.
Exactly. |
I have seen it many times and I still fail to understand how increased dmg in ANY fight compared to bonus only against magic weakened barb against might player.
Agreed. |
I have seen it many times and I still fail to understand how increased dmg in ANY fight compared to bonus only against magic weakened barb against might player.
Agreed.
overall,I think moist barbs want it changed to something more useful, and most non barbs wizards esp want it to remain there.
We, wizard, just want to have a fair chance to win, if admins decide to change it for any other thing, I'm ok with it. If they decide to change to magic shield again, then we are making our way back when wizards vs barbs was a sure win for barb, with no chance for wizard. In the old system, even with more arts, we would still lose. |
