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| Author | Demon Faction Updated |
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| spawns | | thx you Zouris | | no muny | A couple of questions.
I m gonna have a level advance. I was wondering about talents and char build.
First of all:
Common talent build says that you ll put battle fury , and never remove it.
But demons deploys a lot a little units , intead of few bigger, and maybe isn t better luck?
At lv 6 u can have 2 luck (talents) , 1 necklace, 1 ring (u don t suffer ini with shoes).
Isnt 4 luck ( a lot!!) better than battle fury if u run 3 units of spawn, 2 wolfhound all with 13 spd?
I found out that i can attack usually 1,5 , 2x times than enemy . I can easly kill ogres for example just attacking with 7-8 units for every ogre attack. BUT with the most of times attack < def (see magic build question under ).
The other question is about magic and demons.
I decided for the famous DE build, the "druid build" :)
7 spellpower (4 power+1 knowledge+ arts ).
Running Combat staff (10k)+ Wiz Hat (5k) + Cape of spirits (4k) u can istant shot Druids with Earth Spikes .
Runnings Shoes of Aspi (5-6k) u can have same ini than elves minimizing the damage Druids would do . And druids are the best unit at lv 5-6. Almost invincible.
UNluckly this build:
a) cost a lot in arts ( 25k + maintenance)
b) U can t put point on attack (see the Luck question above)
BUT:
a) U can pass lv 6 quickly just doing pvp ( u should kill elven player "easily , and elves are 99% of pvp at that level).
b) U can easily kill ranged unit even if not elves. Magic arrow does 80 damage . See ya Orcs/Bowmen/Rogues
I m waiting for suggestion and answer. I hope from expert Demon player. | I tried to be a magic demon at all of the levels (5 included)
It never seemed to work for me. As a spellcaster, players tend to target you first so that you can't spend all of your mana. They will also target you since everyone knows that demons have very few hp points.
As for luck, I tried an extreme luck build as well. The most I got for luck was +4, and it just wasn't that good when my troops dealt 40% less damage without battle fury (an average, 50 more with demons, 40 more with spawns, and 30 more with wolfs) I got that number by the 1-2 going up to 2-3 which is a 50% increase (slightly less than 50, but close enough)
Hope this helps a little, if you would like to stay a spellcaster, but you still die too fast to use all your mana, consider using hell fire (in addition to battle fury) | well i'm no expert Demon player but you made a mistake:
you only get 10 talent points at lvl 5 and from there on only 5 per level!
that means you can't afford advanced luck, you can't even afford basic luck + hellfire!
you will have only 15 talent points and that's enough for the "classic" build
magic build might really be stronger than might build, i don't know. But you will lack of DE's ability to cast through resistance, so you won't do that much damage to orcs
if you are sucessful with a magic build i dunno but you may try it | :106
Ok Understood u are absolutely right.Thx for help.
:105
I cannot understand what u mean with "players tend to target you first so that you can't spend all of your mana".
This is a concept valid only on group battles. U have 3 player all against u.
But in duels?
I usually play only duels.
hellfire unfortunately sucks. Really. 30% trigger , low damage, no area of effect.
Battlefury is a must have, now i got it. But the magic build?
Orcs are not a great problem , their resistance is low until high level , succubus will do the job anyway (and it was just an example) . | 107:
I assumed you meant group battles, as most people tend to prefer them due to a higher rate of exp and sp.
at level 6 you can get battle fury AND hellfire. I personally didn't use the extra hellfire, it was a burden on any magic I might have drained, I would rather use it to hit pesky ghosts.
a magic build is better against necros, other demons, and elves (low hit points are a good target for magic), but against barbs, wizards, and dark elves, it always seems to fail (self experience talking here) | 108: please tell me how you managed to get battle fury AND hellfire
battle fury costs 7 talent points and needs basic offense (another 7 talent points)
on level 6 (actually i AM lvl 6) you have only 15 talent points
hellfire costs 6 talent points
7+7+6=20
on level 7 you might afford it but afaik not at level 6 | i am sorry for double post but i just remembered why i don't think magic demon isn't that strong @107:
demon has only sorcery and very high cost at chaos magic, DE has cheap chaos magic and -what is much more important- erudition -which gives you extra spellpower you will never get with demon-
the cost for erudition with DE is 10 which is affordable, necro and wizard have much cheaper erudition
and since those stats are really important for any caster i don't think demons are prior choice for casting spells
if only hellfire would do more damage it could be a nice combination of damage-dealing-spells and hellfire but i personally doubt it will work well | 108: from my exp, at 6 demon can beat almost every faction with magic build
(battle fury talents)
elves--> finish elven with magic arrow, then spike the druid
barbs--> wolfhounds easily finish hobs before they hit u
necro+wiz--> suck their mana with spawns
DE--> no ranged unit? just keep fleeing from them, cover ur main army with spawns wall and finish them with magic | 109:
o drat. you're right. I messed up my level system XD
111:
Maybe I just fought against smarter people than you?
Barbs shouldn't charge in like crazy people. The ones I fought flanked there hobs with ogres effectively stopping me from hitting the hobs, as the ogres would kill all of the attacking wolves. The orcs at level 5 outnumbered my succubi too much for me to kill them (a smart barb would split into orc 1 stacks to take retal ;)
The wizards troops I fought with had some good magi abilities that killed off all my succubi before I could attack (they had the int mini-art) and the rest of their troops were resistant to magic or had too much hp to be worth the attack. A good wizard has enough knowledge to still use a lot of magic after losing only 10 MP from spawns.
Maybe I simply had bad strategy against the DE's, more likely it was insufficient arts XD | Maybe I just fought against smarter people than you?
maybe? who knows
1st barbs:
1 orc not always move before the main stacks of orcs
wolf charge the hobs, spawn cover wolf on the backside, so evrytime ogres hit wolf, ur spawns will be able to hit them too (u have a lot of small stack of spawn to take retal)
block the orcs with small stacks
=dead
2nd wiz:
wiz always easy for us, with our ability to sucks mana and gating
with limited mana, wiz wont be able to finish our gated stacks, and that means u can deals a lot of dmg with gated unit before they died | wiz wont be able to finish our gated stacks
Wizards don't need to attack your gated stacks. If they take out all the main stacks (ungated) with spells, no matter how many gated units you have, you'll lose. | It is really hard to keep spawns away from both hobs and ogres, and still be able to assist wolves. The wolves (since we are talking magic build) would be woefully inadequate to combat the hobs and kill all of them. Also, it would be difficult to get near the orcs as his units would surround the orcs to prevent gating directly there. As the orcs are a stronger range, they can sit back and wait for a suicide wolf to run in. And this is also assuming that the barb doesn't have a significant number wolf riders, which completely changes the strategy required.
A smart wiz would not try to attack gated units with its mana, it would go for the real ones. This tends to lead to a defeat, as a magic build probably won't produce enough damage to finish off the troops before you suffer from overexposure to magic. | Wizards don't need to attack your gated stacks. If they take out all the main stacks (ungated) with spells, no matter how many gated units you have, you'll lose.
funny, u dont know what im talking about...
its about the damage dealt by gated unit, now about how to survive with ur main troops | Well this is courios because what :115 wrote is the exact opposit of what my magic build is doing :)
I have always easily killed wiz and barbs (!!) and undead too.
Let s say it clear.
Ok Orcs are attacking before u. They ll kill 2 succubus (1-2) and are gonna take retaliation , a couple of death.
This may seems great for orcs (u have 7 succ vs 18 orcs at lv 5) but u r gonna kill 3-4 orcs with magic arrow soon!
I really cannot understand who use gate close to shooters. Gate are great to take retaliation. Demons IMO should be able to kill shooter in another way.
This is what happens with hobs. U sacrifice 4 spawns against hobs and then they are gonna take 6-7 attack. And never forget: u have 13.3 ini on everything with shoes of aspi.
Another question I found difficult to understand is :
"It is really hard to keep spawns away from both hobs and ogres, and still be able to assist wolves".
Wolves are just 1 font of damage. With battlefury everything is a font of damage. With Faction SKill at least 4 (we re speaking of 5-6 lv) 9 spawns summons 4-5 spawns for a nice damage.
Spawns and Wolves strenght is not damage or attack, but Initiative, who allows them to:
a) U can often choose which unit is gonna take retaliation
b) The most of times u can attack 2x times the enemy.
I don t want to keep spawns away from hobs. I want surround them and kill them doing 10 attacks while Hobs are doing 2.
That s why I m keeping sustain this magic build. It allows u to kill shooters (ehi only barbarians have magic resist, arent they? ) , and if u need big fatty units like hobs.
I m gonna try it as soon as i have money and write results of pvp | | that would be awesome if you could do that! I would love to see it in action, as I am not that low a level anymore. | maybe this battle can inspire u
against barbar
https://www.lordswm.com/warlog.php?lt=-1&warid=4088228
i didnt have any duel against wiz at 6 with magic build
but i have a battle against wiz at 7 with might build
tell me if u want, i'll search it | that barb was really lame :S he couldn't fight his way out of a paper bag lol
I didn't like his setup at all, I think he could have done better. However, it was a really good example, and I am grateful. :)
I don't think I want to see a fight at level 7 against a wizard, I've had those recent enough ;) |
This topic is long since last update and considered obsolete for further discussions.
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