| Author | Magic appears weak |
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Additionally as some1 has pointed out it's very expensive.
At higher levels magic and might artifacts cost roughly the same.
The cost problem exists at middle levels - items like staff of power are too expensive compared to their might counterparts.
Or have sucky stats. The Combat Staff is simply bad. Who the hell had the idea putting Attack Power on it? You cannot get a high Attack Power / Spellpower build anyway since nearly all other items you can get have Spellpower/ Defence on them.
If it would give 1 Knowledge or 1 Defence it would be ok but 1 Attack Power? Worthless.
totally agreed :) |
@78
Where the Wiz Ring gives you 2SP and the Might Ring 3Att +ini% ;)
Magic Items are simply too exspensiv. The Prothet Ring costs more per Fight the the prenumbal and Staff of Power more then Staff of MIght. These things shoud be changed.
To the hole topic:
Magic is great but for everybody but wiz useless in PvE and because 90% of the battles are PvE a small amout of people uses it.
Chaos Magic become weaker in higher lvls as the troop count raises but Darkness and Holy becomes more Powerfull. |
Yeah well for me magic is not all about blasting stuff sky high. I really miss a broader variety of spells which do not have to neccessarily deal ridiculous amounts of damage. Summons for example do not exist in normal games except for Raise Dead.
Also renaming the old Summon Magic to Nature was a bit strange since a lot of spells have nothing to do with nature at all. Nature talents are so very few as well.
They should have renamed it Conjuring which would have fitted much better. |
a certain observation i have made concerning magic arts is that they evolve much slower than might arts.
example:
Ring of might +3 attack + 2 ini
penumbral ring only 2 spellpower
and even worse
comabt staff +2 sp, +2 kn vs. sword of might + 5 att, + 3 ini
Mithril staff +1 att, +2 sp +2 kn vs. Mithril longsword +6 att, +2 ini +5% melee
Ruby quarterstaff +1 def, +2 sp +2 kn +10% pierce vs. Ruby gladius +7 att, +1 ini +7% melee
so while might arts increase might stats with each new art available the magic staff still has 2sp 2kn after 3 circles of evolution and who needs def or att as magic build on the staff?
And 10% pierce might be nice but it surely can't compete with + 7% melee damage. |
| The Pierce Magic is wasted on any opponent who has no magic resitance which most have. I guess it's there to counter the 15% magic resistance cloak. |
theres something you guys need to understand. Magic isnt affected by enemy defense score. So its normal that it doesnt grow as fast as Attack.
Magic dmg = Full against non-resistant creatures.
Physical dmg = Attack compared to Defense against all creatures.
Totally normal. |
What overlook is the fact that troops profit from Morale and Luck as well. This alone equals the disparity out.
But I do not profit at all from Luck and Morale.
And again I ask: Why are there so very few casters in top 100? There are maybe 1-2.
If Wizards would not have the hunt bonus for their spells I am sure none would play casters at all.
One way to fix this might be increasing knowledge on items substantialy so at least we have the stamina to get out a lot of damage just not in a 'bursty' way or increase the mana gained per point of knowledge.
Or give all factions the hunt bonus to magic spells and give wizards another one or improve mini arts. |
The big problem i see in magic builds comes from talents.
Each of the magic talents(chaos, nature, light, darkness) are supposed to empower spells AND give new spells with each levels. At the moment, we only get new spells for basic level.
This means that those talents are severly underpowered.
lvl 4 magic school should make things a bit better, and maybe we can hope for balance with 5th lvl school. But that's a long way to go. |
| Level 4 spells? I have not seen any announcment for them at all so I won't speculate about 'em. |
| But that's a long way to go. ;) |
to 87: there are 2 wizards in top 20, 9 in top 100...
I saw wizards during blindfold tournament. They were great and everybody was afraid of them, except barbars.
In pvp wizards are very strong, duels or group battles.
In hunts they are strong thanks their racial ability.
I saw wizard make tg lvl 2 in 3 days. I am sure that no necro can do this...
And for other races, show me one necro, elf or knight on higher lvl, who is not using magic during hunts or mg quests...
You are just speaking here how weak wizards are. Well check forum of any other race, and you will find there the same thing. Our race is weak, we need improovment, we want to be imba... |
I'll tell you what would give Wizards a chance (it isn't even more damage hehe).
Cheap Def talents. With the reduced mini arts, and with all of these magic casting arts further having less def than their non-magic counterparts...magic caster armies are even 'flimsier' than they were before.
Why would the admins create magic casting arts with low def, anyway? Makes no sense. Especially when melee builds (at least at my level and higher) and pushing an base ATK power of 35+ without breaking a sweat....while my def (with help of erudition talent) and magic casting arts struggles to reach 21. |
82:
costs per battle for high level arts ( approximate values didn't pay too much attention but should be correct )
Ruby Quarterstaff 259
Ruby Gladius 262
Warrior Pendant 170
Locket of Crystallized Tears 178
Sorcerer Robe 142
Fullmithril Armor 140
Heavy Mithril Boots 127
Sorcerer Sandals 131
I definitely see a similarity in prices.
Newest bunch of spell items is extremely good. Sorcerer sandals ability makes them the most powerful spell power item in the game right now. There is 23.5%
spell penetration from staff/cloak. Sorcerer robe also is extremely powerful with the amount of stats it gives.
Wizards and DE casters are fine as they are - they are not overpowered but they are not weak either.
System is very well balanced the way it is - and the delicate balance between might and magic at this point makes this point so good.
If you play a spell caster and complain that you are too weak right now ( after grand update ) you are probably doing something very wrong. The fact that you can't do hunt records doesn't mean anything at all - there are other stuff to do. |
I agree that the new amor and the sandals are definitely a win for mage builds, but the pierce magic is simply loughable.
If I do 100 damage with magic and you have 20% resi it would only be 100*(1-0.2)=80 dmg
If I have 30% magic pearce and you have still 20% magic resist my damage output would only slightly increase.
100*(1-0.2*(1-0.3))=86 damage it is the same as with the amor enchantment vs the weapon enchantment before they fixed with the grand update.
While the resistance is applied to my whole damage, the pierce magic is only calculated against your much lower resistance value.
In the extreme this would mean even if you only have 1% resistance and I would have 99% magic pierce you would still get less damage (hypotetical)
In order to negate your resistance whatever the value, I would have to reach 100% pierce magic. |
94:
Of course it is like that - if you could negate resistance with 2 bread and butter items then:
1) all defense magic proof items would be instantly rendered useless
2) barbarian racial would be rendered useless
3) DE racial would be rendered useless
Do not forget that magic resistance is the only defense others have to your spells and except barbarians - too hard to reach more than 15% ( yes you can use magic resistance cape also but this will give you huge disadvantage vs melee/ranged damage factions ). On the other hand you can pump up your defense and gain 5% resistance to everyone other's attacks for each point of defense you increase. |
Magic resist normaly is 30% (3 mithril arts and cloak), what is reached with 8 defence more than attack. Normally all other races will have much more attack than needed for having same damage reduction.
For the case of the wizard having as much spellpower as the non-wiz has attack its well balanced but with the wiz maximum having only 2/3 of the needed amount it can't be balanced.
Resistance and pierce should be treated like attack and defence and the problem would be solved. |
First of all using cloak is bad idea for factions that have shooters. It helps you against wizard/DE caster but does nothing against other 90% of your opponents. Bow is the best item you can use unless you go specifically for wizard hunting ( which will probably result in losing against others you could have won maybe ).
Even if you use cloak the max resistance you can get is around 25% because it is cumulative and with the spell penetration ignoring 23.5% of that - it ends up being below 20%. 20% reduction is equivalent to 4 defense which wizards can get from medium faction level mini art anyway. |
First of all you can have 30% magic reduction and a lvl 12 wizard with both pierce items can have 25% piercing. That results in 22.5% reduction.
With 200 damage by a lightning (thats high for a wizard, yes i know it seems low because all other factions can easily deal 3 times as much damage) this "mega-cool" piercing arts result in 15 damage more, thats more or less 1 spellpower. When the wizard does less damage, what is nearly always the case, its even less effective.
The only positive thing about these arts are their lower costs per fight. Although the 10% ini shoes combines with 2 masterhunter rings of dexterity result in a 12.4 ini of the hero. And now imagine this guy having expert sorcery.
The only, but big, advantage of wizards is that their damage doesn't become lower with the fight time (unless he has no mana anymore ^^), cuz its absolutely irrelevant if his/her creatures die, concerning the damage.
I wonder why someone above said that level 4 and 5 spells won't ever come, didn't you try the magic wand?! Elementals will come too (although i doubt the phoenix call will come), but the amount of called elements is too low by now, i hope that will get fixed. In the fights a chain lightning was much more efficient (and less expensive in mana costs aswell!).
I am really looking forward to my next level where i can use the sorcerers robe. Maybe the composite bow will hurt, but who wants easy fights :) |
98:
You clearly have no idea how cumulative bonuses work :)
If you have one item with 15% penetration and another with 10% then the total penetration is 1-(1-0.15)*(1-0.1)=0.235-> 23.5%
Just check a random caster's battle with staff and cloak to see that.
In similar way 3*5% resist items and one 15% give total roughly 27% resistance ( too bored to do exact math ) so total damage done is reduced after counting everything by 20%.
This is damage for lightning according to game faq:
11+11*Spell power
13+13*Spell power
15+15*Spell power
17+17*Spell power
With advanced chaos magic ( which is rather easy to get for a level 12-13 player ) and 26 spellpower ( which is also normal for level 12-13 without much effort ) your lightning does 405 damage. With the resistance that would be around 320.
With expert sorcery and boots that spell can be cast with ~ 14% initiative ( after first spell which is cast at 11 ). Believe me if you choose your targets well this is rather devastating for many factions... |
How about Dominion of fire/cold/lightning, Do people use them in GB?
These talents seem perfect for GBs.
Same for darkness magic. I have always been a supporter for 'Delay' in GBs rahter than 'poison' (damage). Delay and dominion talents allow for so much more strategies in GB. |
