| Author | Is Disruption ray spell overpowered? |
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| Morale increasing magic is of Barbarians in HOMM. And they are coming :) |
| [Post deleted by moderator Pang // ] |
These threads with certain builds/faction is overpowered/underpowered has been a (bad) tradition on this server in the years I have played it. Some may have some points but it is so very rare.
Darkness build is a good build in the right hands but so is holy, might, luck, defence build etc.
I have been accused of being overpowered playing every build I tried. People need to use there energy developing tactics rather than writing complaints about "OP" because they are losing.
Short story. If Dis-ray build is OP then we would see many more of them than there are. That build is somewhat rare and it wouldn't be if it was an easy win. LWM players love easy win, just look at people trying to get PvP through thief guilds.
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Pang never plays PvP... Commanders' guild: 0 (0.00) +150.0
He probably has no problem killing bots from the forests...
CG points don't indicate if your points are valid or not. |
If Dis-ray build is OP then we would see many more of them than there are.
I haven't met a necro on lvl 12 in PvP who is not a Mass Darkness caster. Not one!... Even knights have started doing it... (not as successful though)
My comment above in post #16 had to do with this remark from post #8: in pvp, i bet most of your killing will be done within 2 turns to soft down enemy major strength.
Also it's not an implication. They are two separate statements/sentences.
No offense to Pang, but the point was that I wished he talked from his own experience, since that statement didn't make sense to me. I've never seen a knight or wiz to finish (most) killing in 2 turns. Unless they are those who are killed of course... |
| pff... it doesn't matter what level I cg on (lv 12 with main or lv 11 with multi) every smart/tactical necro goes for mass disrupt. why? well it is easy to win when vamps are munching on 0 def opponents and appas (which are luck based to hit anyway) are tanks that you CANNOT kill in 2 turns, which some person suggested. I have never seen a necro in regular pvp killed in 2 turns unless they were morons |
sure, darknessmagic is very strong (as i can say for lvl12)in group batlles
but, as an example, yesterday we had battle 2vs2 might de and dark necro vs dark knight and dark necro
i was with de and we were able to overrun the mages coz they waited once with guards (and could not help other stacks in meele) in beginning, so one little mistake may make mages loose a battle...
things seem to be a little diffrent if u watch duells:
please show me how to beat (good playing) mightbuild players like de, barb, elves and maybe knights (dont know about dwarfes, but think that counts for them too) with dark mass spells and i found just one setup (vitality+basic dark n massdisrupt) to defeat wiz
so u cant say 'massdisrupt is overpowered' in gerneral
@23 'discussions of others beeing overpowered': +++ |
p.s.: sry for doublepost but forgot link for battle i spoke about post before
https://www.lordswm.com/war.php?lt=-1&warid=35886768 |
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well, in most case, your troops will focus to take out high threat unit in the initial 2 turns.
take knight as your opponents, those fast unit like cava and griffin will be dead within 2 turns.
what knight left will be the guardian the major strength and support with monk; you will never count on xbow, will you?
guardian will just suffer the dis ray and die at the end.
your so called OP dis ray built is more suitable on killing slow faction like knight or maybe on nerco.
for those fast faction like DE or demon, it doesnt make huge difference on dis ray. those major strength like shrew or cerberus, they just charge forward and kill opponent asap. those unit wont get benefits from dis ray in 1st move. they were too fast, they will just start attack before you can cast dis ray.
it is laughable that if you let them wait the turn for you to cast dis ray. what we could expect is your shrew or cerberus will get killed before your cast dis ray for them xD |
2 turns.
it is just 1 turn
n it takes 1 turn just to reach the opponents
n you can me killed just on the way
once guards don't have defense
what is left in a knight?
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i have no problem if it is substituted by a spell that gives -12 def.. for no. of turns w.r.t. spell power with expert magic ofc.
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why is dark stronger than light.. |
why is dark stronger than light..
Because Satan is stronger than God :P |
| Same with Chaos it seems. Looks like God is the most pathetic weakling... :p |
for Ravna:
Your statement is funny
seems like you never played holy build as knight to know what truly "overpowered" means :S |
seems like you never played holy build as knight to know what truly "overpowered" means :S
Holy against dark ? lol you are funnier than me :P |
seems like you never played holy build as knight to know what truly "overpowered" means :S
coming from a nekr??
holy vs dark = holy pissed
the light must win :P
satan must lose :P |
I think Disruption ray spell is so overpowered compared to other dark and holy spells which need spell power and effect is limited for short duration.
You're just saying that because of its (slightly better) ease of use. 'Ray can be used anytime while 'skin takes a bit more timing to use effectively. Also, 'skin's effect cannot be cancelled by 'ray. Also, 'ray is nearly useless against low defense units. Also, there are a hell of a lot more sources of defense than attack. Holy casters can buff their own units to increase offense while Dark casters have no such equivalent unless they have units that can cast Chastise.
[Player banned by moderator SV22 until 2012-07-21 16:39:52 // Posting with Additional relapse x 2] |
for Remilia:
I didnt say Disruption ray must be removed from game. Just change its nature.
I mean with expert dark , decrease the defense of enemy units in 5x5 area by 12 for the duration of casters spell power. then its more balanced. |
Slust already pointed out one significant reason - initial tactical disadvantage for a darkness mage. (though, if the troops are clustered together for light magic, they become easy target for darkness)
anyway, there are several other spells which don`t rely on hero`s spell power/are instant/remain for the whole battle.
Nature: wasp swarm/raise dead
Light: dispersion
just an example for alternatives.
there is a big BUT:
- expert darkness mage needs 2 turns to disrupt expert stone skin.
- darkness mage WILL have to waste points for SP, because you cannot rely only on mass disruption in a duel against a light mage.
this means - two opponents become equal, because the tactical disadvantage of darkness is leveled by increased influence field of most lvl 1-3 mass spells and their effectiveness.
- light has 2 powerful spells. of course, Dispersion cannot remove disruption ray. till lvl 14. then you can avert this spell casting Antimagic.
and this is a goddamn powerful spell, which cost only 7 mana!
necromancers use mass disruption because of its cheapness and high effectiveness. necromancer-warrior against high defensive troops? necromancer-nature spellcaster against high defensive troops?
it`s simply their best choice - weaken the opponent and strike.
anyway, the spell is balanced. |
expert darkness mage needs 2 turns to disrupt expert stone skin
cannot be disrupted, just an equivalent for 2*6 defense. |
I mean with expert dark , decrease the defense of enemy units in 5x5 area by 12 for the duration of casters spell power. then its more balanced.
What you're looking for is "symmetry". That is not the same as being "balanced", gamewise. If you want to talk about "balance", you should look at the bigger picture and not just focus on making those two spells into exact mirror opposites of each other. You also have to consider the other things like troop recruitment, racial abilities, and other hero spells. You also have to dig up tournament and CG results to prove that 'ray users overwhelmingly dominate everyone else in order to raise a "balance" issue.
I didnt say Disruption ray must be removed from game. Just change its nature.
I have no clue where this came from. |
cannot be disrupted, just an equivalent for 2*6 defense.
Why it cant be 1*12 for a few turns? |
