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| Author | [News] Perilous Studies |
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i think the new alt necro did bring some advantages like skel leg large shield allies, ghoul actively affect (living) enemy units without direct attack.
yet, i am disappointed at the same time.
1. necro is deprived of the dark spells. dominion of pain is very useful for killing fast/ high morale units or archers. if we have to put points in knoledge and spell power for raise dead, why cant we use mana for other useful spells?
2. vams without no retal now can die of retal
3. Poltergeist ability is useless. since poltergeist have to be within movement range to the shooters, why don't poltergeist attack the shooters or move to block them instead?
4. new alt necro is forced to focus on raise dead so much because the cost for might necro is higher as far as talent wheel is concerned. We cant fight demon or even a huge army of spawns easily as before | After casting "Raise dead", the character gets his turn 3% faster per faction skill level.
Does this stack up with the sorcery talents? like concealed knowledge.. | for 986king:
You're a level 8, I mean..
There will always be some disadvantages, otherwise one faction would dominate all others.
Be happy with what you get and give it a break. | It seems that this alt nec comes with a lot of bullets we have to bite.
Raise dead used to be obsolete (starting at cl8?)
But I don't think it works for alt nec if we still rely on this same assumption.
Sure, the significant reduction in skellies and the seemingly weaker troops in general does have a big impact, but sticking to the same pure might build makes the gap all the more wider.
Comparing skel leg number to skel bow is a bit odd too. Vanilla nec's racial ability creates overly high expectation for any quantity of tier 1 unit alt nec may have.
Skel leg is nothing but another ordinary tier 1 unit now. It could have some potential like brutes or hobs, I do not know.
But it also might as well be just another gremlin engineer or poisoner to most people in the end, but slightly better from shield ally.
I don't think it's built for magic either, but rather, a hybrid one.
Raise dead is nothing if your troop is weak
The new enhanced raise dead makes it highly efficient even with minimal points into sp and kn
I don't think it does any justice to the new alt nec if their new racial ability is not even tested.
They even have Concealed knowledge and Fickle mana too.
I don't know about others, but the enhanced raise dead costing 3 mana or less in higher CL sounds interesting to me :)
#62, concealed knowledge is reduced mana cost, it's the outer "sorcery" talents that makes the turn comes faster.
Raise dead is not a mass spell, so I see no reason why it won't apply :)
We can debate about ammo steal, it seems useless, true, but other alternatives doesn't look too good either.
Suppose it steals on attack just like appa, then it's already adjacent to the shooter, which is somewhat odd and even more useless
Suppose it can steals any number of times, then it becomes real annoying. Shooters are a lot more common than casters.
The ability as is allows for ammo steal when the shooter is completely boxed in safety
True, essentially, there's just one unique tactic: raise, then raise and raise again until you finish the mana or your your opponent runs away because of the boring technique.
But the same thing can be said to wiz's garg run. Opponents just have to try and counter that (stepping, dd's corpse eat)
I do agree that it will be very weak in hunt though.
Balance is hard, but I think Sven has said it nicely
if admins notice that one faction is too weak, they'll rebalance. But that takes time. | lvl 16: old necro (12) vs new necro (11) longesta game of ever.
https://www.lordswm.com/war.php?lt=-1&warid=529603690 | for Murali:
for Gaviena:
You do not understand what we are saying because you have no experience as a necro and i don't expect you to agree with us for the same above reason
only necro's will understand how weak this class is | only necro's will understand how weak this class is
for PVE and hunt, maybe
for PVP, definitely not weak
check this guy:
https://www.lordswm.com/pl_info.php?id=314312 | | lol if you are not necro stay quiet, any one else, the alt isnt bad as they seem of course they need tweaking but they arent horrible ^_^ although the arrow steal i can agree isn't useful | as far as i know, all the alt upgrades like dark Demon, Red knight and this New necro... all favors PvP's and ST's.
i am sure that PvP players will enjoy.
if we guys only think of negative, even we knights and Dark Demon can start a topic again :P
for Fallen Atheros:
only necro's will understand how weak this class is
many walked that path before, trust me...
or should i mention Pang's favorite quote? | I don't think it's right to mute non-nec
We seek weaknesses in our own faction and strength from others. At least this is what I thought to be the basic idea behind Pang's infamous quote.
We may be blinded from our own strengths.
Being necro means we know what works, and what doesn't, that, I do not disagree.
But anyone can come to know the reason why.
Raise dead becomes useless later on, yes, but nec should know best that this is exactly because of its high mana cost, low hp raised, and 20% deduction..
all of which are addressed by alt nec's faction ability
Gavara (from #67) demonstrated this enough.
given the new faction ability
Playing alt nec without proper use of raise dead is like playing vanilla nec without skel reserves | | Sorry, reference to Pang's quote in #70 after #69 is purely coincidental | Judging alt necro at least from the Insight tournament perspective, i got to say the following regarding that alt-grade:
a) you got to be careful who the dreadlords are going to hit due to the lack of non-retal feature and easy dying.
b)the way i see it, stealing arrows are gonna work only vs normal necros' archers that are boxed (or similarly boxed units), and only occasionally so.
c) regarding ST and PVE, alt necros fights quickly end up into a mess of continuous ressing and be killed after that, just like the event was...
d) regarding PVP (3v3 mostly where fights are more balanced), the way i see it, alt necro becomes a weapon of the latter stages of the fight, as it can sustain much damage but not deal much damage either. Or perhaps a bunch of retal taking army? So whoever needs to kill him, must totally focus on him (which end up leaving him last?)
e) zombies ability is dubious in pvp battles. i am eagerly waiting for more PVP battles feedback of yours guys | many walked that path before, trust me...
or should i mention Pang's favorite quote?
no don't do this... i can't read that quote anymore :P
new class necro faction ability only helps rise dead, but not for any-other nature spell, so new necro must be a raise dead might build. not a caster build | pvp necro classic vs new necro
maybe new necro ist not so great, if the enemy use darkness spell, they can use Disruption ray mass -6, in 3 turn you can reduce -36 defend, only cost 60 mana, so new necro if use a lot mana and defense, they dont have good attack, ist just question time necro classic kill the stack in 1 hit | For e)
I don't have pvp experience myself, but from some battles i've seen,
ghouls are normally used for debuff
Get some amount for it to last some hits and just waddle along where ever the enemy troops are, the -2 morale is really really useful
Likewise, left over skel leg can just tag along with your main armies for shield ally
These 2 units don't really do any dmg themselves but are highly useful just being there regardless of number | Just to add another piece to the puzzle...
Am I the only one who noticed that the un-usefull necro doesn't have a unique racial ability? They (cause I won't use it, I swear) have a sort of modified necromancy, that it is just useful to improve the only thing they are able to do... This is really sad.
The idea of improving necromancy for the high level player was nice, but the price to pay is to high! To lose dark magic, together with the skelly reserve and also with all the useful unique abilities of our troops is simply to much.
And please, let's try another faction name. Unholy necromancer does't fit considering that they don't have neither dark magic... If "un-useful necromancer" is not good, maybe "automat necromancer" or "boring necromancer"...
"Guess-which-will-be-your-next-action necromancer" is probably too long, isn't it? | | Stay normal necro then and you will be happy | @75 You are correct. These stacks can just wander off the field of battle as movable debuff+buff respectably. Minus morale works if you are a bit lucky.
@76 Diversity never hurt anyone. Stay normal necro the way i will, at least until they buff alt-necro a bit. Archer skelies are the funniest unit around (until they meet elf grandbowmen). Shadow dragons too.
Still alt-necro breaks the monotony and makes necro faction leveling less tedious due to not tying skely archers to faction level. Exactly the way DD or Holy Knight altgrades work. This alone is a huge bonus for you non-necros out there. | Rambling of a fool part 2 and sorry for double posting.
Dreadlords have huuuge difference between min-max damage. That means luck.
Dreadlords have (really low) chance on lethargy. That means luck.
Zombies morale debuff relies on chances so that enemy loses turn. That means luck.
Besides raising, all an alt-necro can use, is phantom/mirror image which relies on luck (50%-50%). That means luck.
Add ghosts miss/hit sequences (50%-50%) which... means luck.
So all you need to be a successful alt-necro, is... very lucky indeed! | i do not agree they are so weak but they depend too much on pure luck (not luck stat - irl luck)
either lucky miss on appas or they die
either malady on vamps or they die
either stun on skeles or they die
...
and luck talent cost 12 points so it is 24 points (5 lvls) to increase trigger chance - leaving none for raise unless you are clvl 15 or sth |
This topic is long since last update and considered obsolete for further discussions.
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