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| Author | tribal and dwarf |
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| The skill is in developing your character better :p | | I haven't played with Tribal faction but here is a battle that could be interesting https://www.lordswm.com/war.php?warid=1074676482 | sports analysts aren't world champions themselves.
Even then, they never say something requires zero skill, or something is impossible lol. They always have an opinion on what can/should be done.
I personally have zero experience in PvP, but I believe you need some skill to win (irrespective of the faction you play).
And there will never be a clear distinction between factions as Easy/Medium/Hard to play based on skill. (Due to the variables of morale, luck and talents.)
With a different recruitment, with a different talent set, with a different set of arts, there should always be a way to play competitively against any faction and anyone. If someone says there isn't, it only means they've given up on trying to find a way to do that lol. Resigned to a defeated mindset until someone else proves that it can be done. | Yeah tribal and dwarf not much skill required.
For tribal u put all stats into defence and put all ur shamans in the corner.
For dwarf put all ur stats into attack and pray for luck + good hit from invokers
How to counter? Difficult bro but possible to win if ur stats are good | When you pass judgment or make declarations about not only one faction but all factions, you better have something to show for it. Of course talk is cheap, and as anywhere you certainly have the right to your cheap talk but hardly anyone is taking you seriously.
I know its true that something is always to be gained by looking at things from multiple perspectives, but you won't learn how to be a successful businessman by listening to the theories put forth by a random person who is more comparable to your maid/waiter than a wealthy business person themselves (=showing significant credentials of success). Before you compare yourself to a sports analyst, which is yet another of your ambitious claims, I want you to know that I'm trying to think why i should listen to your advice? So, i have already tried to look at your statements objectively, but there isn't a single convincing reason to give them merit. These are too broad statements for a game where i think each battle requires some degree of improvisation to win. | I love how you've constructed a wordy wall focused around how you don't see merit in my advice & that is totally your prerogative to do so. The agenda behind my post is to provide my 2 cents on the primary topic; considering my FSL 12 & 6 PvP Tournament wins (all as a Tribal) I believe I'm in a reasonable position to do so.
What really intrigues me is how you've had not a dime worth of contribution to the primary topic itself but seem to have vested interest in personally directed banter.
The point is as a player you can probably fall into these categories (Broad ofc):
a. An active & serious gamer who approaches the game competitively.
b. Casual player who is interested in sharing insights with the community.
c. Trash tier garbage who is redundant, both competitively or in community building.
Now we all take a conscious decision when entering into any of these above categories; in your case the choice is evident. Drawing comparisons like
who is more comparable to your maid/waiter is a reflection of someone's off-game position, approach & mental capacity (or incapacity in select cases) in real life. I understand that the world is a frustrating place & the internet is a brilliant space for venting out aimlessly. My best wishes & sympathies with such beautiful souls.
Now if you have anything interesting to talk about "tribal and dwarf", kindly share so with the community so we all share, learn & develop. Cheers to good gaming. | never say something requires zero skill
Considering you've quoted me before stating this, quick clarification; I didn't mention zero skill. I said doesn't require as much skill, viz. relative to the impact of variables such as Luck, Morale, ATB variance in the first turn.
With a different recruitment, with a different talent set, with a different set of arts, there should always be a way to play competitively against any faction and anyone.
Definitely agreed to that. But if you take a sample set of (say) 100 battles of Fire Dwarf v/s Tribal or Dwarf v/s Elf (or any such contrasting combo); you'll see a good degree of rock - paper - scissor data sets.
Given the OP had the query, how am i supposed to beat them especialy tribal with 1000 tribal spirit? , I've given perspective a from my end (as a tribal main) on what worries me the most in a battle, what are my priority creatures & why.
The skill is in developing your character better :p
Amen my man. Characters like RevolutionRebel are a testament to this. I remember so many more such 'Survival Tournament Kings' from back in 2018 who built their accounts specifically for competitive advantage; which takes macro planning to a whole new level. | If by interesting you mean waah waah tribal weak, dwarf strong. Or stating that tribal requires little skill, then i wont. Categorizing and making broad statements is your forte. You can carry on categorizing players, factions, literally anything. But that wont help when reality hits in real life when you meet those players, or even in game when you cant win pvp tournaments.
for AKA:
I don't follow many sports, but don't they at least try to include former players who have had some measure of success in their panel for making legit analyses? It is what makes their words legit. A lay person will have what he will have i.e. opinions.
Now I think you are being silly to liken PvP success in this game to world championships of real life sports.. its bordering on mind numbing stupidity but for your sake we will just call it plain inexperience.
Now I will clarify this to you with the assumption that you are a 5 year old:
Sports champions go through long and arduous periods of physical conditioning, usually spanning decades of their lifespan to reach their goal i.e. championships. In addition to the effort it takes, there are genetic factors involved in this conditioning which makes it unattainable for many. Point is, real world championships cannot be compared to this game. Here you can be a donkey and press the right buttons periodically to accumulate stats just like you did. No conditioning required, only dedication. I am hardly asking you to be the undisputed champion in this game to make comments about faction strengths, that is too tall an order for someone who thinks its anywhere comparable to real sports. So what is actually appalling here is that you who has good stats but nothing to prove your skill is being pretentious.. for thinking you are the worthy analyst among us when all you have going for you is literally just ability to write opinions, make terrible comparisons and that poor wit. I play a game as fury barb, I can face any of the 9 factions against me who will belong to a certain class with their specific talents and abilities and stats depending on combat level. Now lets make it 2 versus 2 or 3 versus 3. You will say, we just we won through our linear gameplay? It can be, but it is one of the rarer occurrences.
Apologies if it seemed to become personal somewhere. I hardly know you or your overall cuteness, but you didn't play nice either. | Categorizing and making broad statements is your forte. You can carry on categorizing players, factions, literally anything. But that wont help when reality hits in real life when you meet those players, or even in game when you cant win pvp tournaments.
Not sure what drives your frustration. I've given my opinion on the battle strategy against Tribals in P15:
Your kill priority should be:
Warlords > or = Shamans > Centaurs > Enforcers. & so on.
If I were an expert on Dwarf faction I would have loved to share my insights on the same. But unfortunately I am not, I would love to be some day though.
As for my general observation of this game, well it's my personal observation in contrast to the other MMO's I have tried. I totally appreciate the fact that you may deploy a greater degree of your overall skill on something that I don't, it's all right.
Now I will clarify this to you with the assumption that you are a 5 year old:
Sports champions go through long and arduous periods of physical conditioning, usually spanning decades of their lifespan to reach their goal i.e. championships. In addition to the effort it takes, there are genetic factors involved in this conditioning which makes it unattainable for many. Point is, real world championships cannot be compared to this game. Here you can be a donkey and press the right buttons periodically to accumulate stats just like you did. No conditioning required, only dedication. I am hardly asking you to be the undisputed champion in this game to make comments about faction strengths, that is too tall an order for someone who thinks its anywhere comparable to real sports. So what is actually appalling here is that you who has good stats but nothing to prove your skill is being pretentious.. for thinking you are the worthy analyst among us when all you have going for you is literally just ability to write opinions, make terrible comparisons and that poor wit. I play a game as fury barb, I can face any of the 9 factions against me who will belong to a certain class with their specific talents and abilities and stats depending on combat level. Now lets make it 2 versus 2 or 3 versus 3. You will say, we just we won through our linear gameplay? It can be, but it is one of the rarer occurrences.
Gosh, what is this random banter? Education is sparse; articulation even more it seems. I can't believe I'm spending time on this conversation; let me admit my defeat so I can spend time elsewhere now.
My sincere apologies for trying to provide genuine strategy to a fellow player on a faction that I play as my main in this game. I hope the OP can wait for opinion from those who this run of the mill player called virtual_vitrea can validate.
Cheers to good gaming. | for AKA:even with holy knight i never put spell power
i play full offense with balanced defense 30 mana and 0 spell power
should i change it? and if yes how? much should i upgrade? | for ___Nikos__:
I believe you posted this thread after this battle considering that the timing is so close: https://www.lordswm.com/war.php?lt=-1&warid=1106836739&html5=1
I'll quickly give my personal thoughts on this battle first in which you are a classic knight & then run down my thoughts on Holy Knight approach.
That said, I'm not a Knight main, so my opinion comes from what gets me worried of a Knight more than what I'd do as a Knight. But it's one & the same from the birds eye view.
Thoughts on the battle:
a. The Griffin Dive would be ideal on the Wardens; as once the Griffin Dives in the Tribal's territory, it is essentially giving out 100 TS to the tribal creatures for melee hits without even moving away from their side of the field.
b. The 30 - 30 Crossbowmen split doesn't work in your favor, especially if you spread them out. Rather you should concentrate them on one side of the field & focus all your melee troops into covering them up.
c. In conjunction with point b. your team had better ranged durability (because of the health of Monks); which meant that if you prioritized Wardens > Centaurs, you'd be in the commanding position to dish out damage from ranged. This would force the opponent to walk towards you, which is when you deploy your melee troops.
d. The biggest loss was for the Guardian stack at the bottom, who went against 5 other stacks all by itself. It was essentially free 200TS for the Commanders every turn. To the contrary, if your Guardian & your ally Guardian would have stuck closer to each other & your ranged troops, the Commander would not be able to accumulate TS. Remember that the Guardian has the 'Surge of Energy' ability, which essentially means that it performs best if it is the last standing troop. In this case it died even before it could use it. So try to use Guardian defensively when you have the ranged advantage.
e. Also as I mentioned earlier, once the Commander is in range, just blast away all your fire power on it. You only get 1-2 turns before the enemy blocks your ranged troops. But for that, make sure your troops are aligned closer to each other. So if the enemy hits any of your troops, it gets hit by multiple troops.
Also, your ally played very poorly by charging in with the Cavalry; then playing an idle game with all his troops until the Commanders were fed. I say that because the probability of the Guardians stunning the Commanders / Enforcers lessens later on as they get more HP. As stun probability is dependent on HP of attacking & receiving stack. As a tribal my biggest worry is if the opponent Guardian gets a stun on my melee troops. It's a waste of 120 Tribal Spirit in a single turn + if the Guardian gets Morale then it's game over.
I hope I could help with some ideas / thoughts with what I've written above. Maybe you can use those ideas to strategize next time as Classic Knight v/s Tribal.
I'll post stuff about Holy Knight in next post. Thanks for bearing with me. | for Holy Knight;
At your level, I'd say caster build is better.
4Kn, 4 SP, rest into Offense / Defense, any work.
The reason for 4 SP is so that by the time you cast your 4th round of spells your troops have all the spells applied & you can start renewing the spells.
You casting line up against a ranged opponent would ideally be:
Stoneskin > Rapid > Bless/Chastise
Against melee opponent (like Sky Shaman Tribal or Classic DE):
Bless > Rapid > Chastise > Stoneskin
The above is not iron clad though, depends on what your troops positioning is. I always despise when Holy Knights stone skin their Melee Troops, because I automatically deal garbage damage to them while their Wardens pick me off.
The reason I prefer Caster is because:
a. You get +24 additional stats (12 Def, 12 Att) on your troops.
b. They get their turns faster, which means you can chip away TS faster.
c. It nullifies the Delay cast by the opponent Shamans, which plays a HUGE role imho for a tribal. Directly impacts the amount of TS gained per turn.
The way I would approach the battle:
a. Wardens damage Centaurs or Commanders on turns 1 & 2, rest of the troops wait in a 4x4 cast ready formation next to the wardens.
b. Then you focus on completely killing Commander Stack. Since you are a caster, the Enforcer is very useless as Enforcer's base stats are very low to match up with you so you can ignore them.
c. The Tribal will be forced to engage you if you kill Shaman / Centaurs as the more the troops wait / defend the more TS is lost.
I hope the above made sense & it makes some difference! | | AKA speaks good advise. Listen to him. | AKA speaks good advise. Listen to him.
Well AKA is the "type" who thinks there are 3 "types" of players, so let me ask you which one of these you fall into? And who can evaluate players and put them into categories exactly? Is it by everyone or self decided? His too broad categorizing is what irks me. Maybe its simply good advise to you because it aligns with your ideas, not anyone else I am seeing up here agreeing with him really. But he is either unwilling to listen or just too thick to reason with anymore so I give up. | As a knight I usually find tribals easy, especially as holy knight
Just take all 3 mass options, 5-6 kn if 2v2, else 4-5 and take 4-5 kn, put stats into defense ideally
The tribal cant touch you for 2 turns no matter what.
Split warden into 2-3
First turn, bless and pray for good damage, and just start shooting at commander, it will be dead really soon, or at least ineffectual in a turn if all goes well
Next turn cast, use rapid, since your hero will move again before wardens, so use bless then
Next shoot down invaders I’d say, shaman cant get OP spirit in 2 rounds
After that, shoot shamans
When I say “end” invaders or commanders, i dont necessarily mean kill them, all you have to do is make them small enough to not be able to have much impact, since the build is defensive anyways, 4-6 commanders or 20-30 invaders can very safely be ignored to be pinched off with monks or grif
Shamans will probably get off 2-3 lightnings on you, but you should have enough of an HP advantage, and the crusaders with 2 hits are very good at killing tribals if crusade can be triggered
I’m not sure this is universal, but it works for me most of the time around our CLs (10-12 or so)
Dwarf is tough with Holy Knight, since if you plan to cast spells, dreadbanes just end us and spearmen kill hard, with priests evading stuff, I have not been able to work that one out, usually won that only if I had a partner who could get me the advantage there
Classic knight I dont have much advise for, it’s more to be managed in game, but it’s weaker vs tribal and stronger vs dwarf compared to HK
But without a doubt, my arch nemesis are darkness casters, on classic, a delayed guardian might as well not be there, on holy, first turn confusion and there is no coming back xD
Off topic but if someone can help with these things then please do (ps : cl 12 so before clerics and exorcists ) | | Sorry for typo, first turn is chastise, since you are taking def stats and want the 14 att before shooting | for virtual_vitrea:
Idk, so he should specify every persons playstyle playing this game? I dont get it. | For HK. Its very situational what spell to cast. Lets say you play duel vs another HK or other full shooter build. Maybe evasion is worth it. For group battle maybe yo can buff your teammate instead of yourself depending on matchup.
There are alot of factors. But above information should be used as possibility, not as fact.
Best way to learn these things are by implementing all of mentioned above, switch things around. And get experienced. | | Also for tribal try building some faction resistance if they're that difficult for you. Since they get stronger based on how much damage they do and TS they can build it will impact them a lot. | I find tribal hard to play.
- They need def stats and talents talents cause they are squishy.So its hard to put damage sometimes.
- They need luck also from enforcers to trigger double strike
For Void Moon: i agree 100% you cannot allways do the same and expect a different outcome. |
This topic is long since last update and considered obsolete for further discussions.
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